The Ford Barn

silversink · 07-06-2014, 02:08 PM

Be careful about buying a frame without a title in Oregon. A friend bought a rolling frame with no title and when it was time for him to apply for one there had been a title already issued with the frame numbers which makes the frame useless. He is trying to figure out what to do next, and it don't look good

zzlegend · 07-06-2014, 02:24 PM

Common practice is some one keeps the body and title and sells the running gear. And builds a new chassis and engine and can register it again. Happens all the time.

ursus · 07-06-2014, 03:33 PM

It also depends on what your friend plans to do. If he wants the engine and frame numbers to match then he is out of luck. However, there are many licensed and registered Model A's without matching numbers simply because the motor was switched out at some point in the past and the DMV accepted it as such for registration purposes. In Oregon I have seen quite a few Model A's that were registered using the number on the engine, but that happened years ago.

Many states are now using a national database and this has been problematic for some because an engine and frame having the same numbers may be in different states. I don't know that can be adjudicated, but I heard a story from one of the V8 guys about having his insurance cancelled because he had the same VIN number as a guy in New Jersey and this was after he had owned the car for 8 years!

Charlie Stephens · 07-06-2014, 03:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by silversink

Be careful about buying a frame without a title in Oregon. A friend bought a rolling frame with no title and when it was time for him to apply for one there had been a title already issued with the frame numbers which makes the frame useless. He is trying to figure out what to do next, and it don't look good

Once the ownership issue is resolved the DMV will probably insist on putting a tag on the door jam. Of course different states will handle the problem differently.

Charlie Stephens

denis4x4 · 07-06-2014, 04:51 PM

If your friend has a bill of sale with the frame number on it, chances are the DMV will open an investigation and the guy that kept the body and title could be in a world of hurt.

ronn · 07-06-2014, 04:58 PM

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

just use your engine # and dont make a big deal out of it.................

grinders come in handy.

Chris Haynes · 07-06-2014, 05:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ronn

just use your engine # and dont make a big deal out of it.................

grinders come in handy.

It is a felony to remove any manufacturers identification number.

Willie Krash · 07-06-2014, 05:46 PM

I think a VIN number may be a felony in some states but engines come and go..
For the OP, look here.
http://chevellestuff.net/vin/aamva_section1.pdf

Oregon,
We do not check for VINs on all major parts. If the public VIN is missing,
altered, etc., the vehicle may be referred to police, who in turn may check VINs
on various parts. As long as the vehicle and/or parts are not identified as stolen,
we are primarily concerned with having a good public VIN. A number may be
reassigned if the public VIN is missing, and police do not determine the vehicle
to be stolen. Police may assign numbers to component parts but this is rarely
done.

I do not know how accurate the PDF is...Oregon is pretty easy going. I brought my A in Kali, took it to the Oregon DMV, they did a quick look at the motor number and issued a title. My Model T has a fantasy engine number from some rebuilder, numbers and letters.I went to the DMV as I purchased the car locally. They didn't even want to see the car.
Go to the State Police and ask them. I think you'll be OK.

Ross/Kzoo · 07-06-2014, 07:03 PM

I know this isn't Oregon but in Michigan they now run the motor # in a national database and within an hour I got the go ahead to proceed and in 2 weeks the title was in my mailbox. I think the state was only interested in the sales transfer tax. Maybe try registering it in an adjacent state.

ursus · 07-06-2014, 07:38 PM

I actually saw one Oregon Model A sporting a VIN number that was based on one of the Richmond, California Ford factory rebuilt engines. It started with an "RF" followed by a 5-digit number. Good enough for the DMV.

29ModelA · 07-07-2014, 08:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ross/Kzoo

I know this isn't Oregon but in Michigan they now run the motor # in a national database and within an hour I got the go ahead to proceed and in 2 weeks the title was in my mailbox. I think the state was only interested in the sales transfer tax. Maybe try registering it in an adjacent state.

When did you go through this? They did not do that for mine in 2012.

Franchise_24 · 07-07-2014, 08:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ronn

just use your engine # and dont make a big deal out of it.................

grinders come in handy.

That's like telling someone to scratch off a serial number on something..big no no.

Wick · 07-07-2014, 08:28 AM

I have bought Model A's and T's from Street rod builders who I figured they kept the Tital for there build. Tell me not to worry it's ez to get a tital....

I guess they will find out someday that the Tital they kept is no good.
When I buy a car I get a tital made right away matching the frame and engine #
of the car!

Ross/Kzoo · 07-07-2014, 09:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 29ModelA

When did you go through this? They did not do that for mine in 2012.

About 207 or 2008. The new process was only in place a couple of months when I did mine. Remember that I registered it and requested a title at the same time. When registering I paid my sales tax. I really think that were primarily interested in getting the sales tax.

29ModelA · 07-07-2014, 09:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ross/Kzoo

About 207 or 2008. The new process was only in place a couple of months when I did mine. Remember that I registered it and requested a title at the same time. When registering I paid my sales tax. I really think that were primarily interested in getting the sales tax.

It changed Jan 1st, 2012. I did one in 2006 and it required police inspection, but other than that it was easy. In 2007 they eliminated the need for the police inspection. This made it really easy to get a title, but had the adverse effect of scrappers were getting titles too easily for cars they did not own that they would pull out of fields.

As of Jan 1st, 2012 in MI you have to have an appraisal done as well as get a surety bond if the value was over $1500 (I think that was the number) after that I paid my taxes and title fees.

Charlville · 07-09-2014, 02:45 AM

I imported my Car from the States with a PA title, the title was against the engine number, no VIN visible as often the case with A's

kelley's restoration · 07-09-2014, 07:57 AM

I had to have a vin attached to my model a phaeton because it had a b motor and no visible numbers on the frame
it was perfect....now I can put the body on anything and not have to worry about the title
hell I could put it on a 4x4 chevy frame and it would still be legal lol...that would never happen
tk

Growley bear · 07-09-2014, 08:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by silversink

Be careful about buying a frame without a title in Oregon. A friend bought a rolling frame with no title and when it was time for him to apply for one there had been a title already issued with the frame numbers which makes the frame useless. He is trying to figure out what to do next, and it don't look good

I have seen many antique cars in Oregon with a sticker on the firewall issued by the state which I assumed was similar a salvage or rebuilt title. I am sure some provenance would be needed. I had to fill out some extra paperwork to get mine titled as it came to me with an Idaho title. Your friend might want to talk further with a DMV rep. as I am sure that there are options.

Chet

Model A Man · 07-09-2014, 12:33 PM

I moved from California to Oregon last year and registered our four old cars (3 models A's and one 1930 Chrysler) 2 model A's and the 1930 Chrysler were registered using the motor number. the third model A was registered using a California vin plate that had been attached to the B pillar. My wife and I live in a small town so there was no line at the DMV and only took about fifteen minutes for each car.

Franchise_24 · 07-09-2014, 12:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Model A Man

I moved from California to Oregon last year and registered our four old cars (3 models A's and one 1930 Chrysler) 2 model A's and the 1930 Chrysler were registered using the motor number. the third model A was registered using a California vin plate that had been attached to the B pillar. My wife and I live in a small town so there was no line at the DMV and only took about fifteen minutes for each car.

It's probably much easier when you have the 4 cars already registered in your name.

07-06-2014, 02:08 PM	#1
silversink Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Dayton Oregon Posts: 318	titles Be careful about buying a frame without a title in Oregon. A friend bought a rolling frame with no title and when it was time for him to apply for one there had been a title already issued with the frame numbers which makes the frame useless. He is trying to figure out what to do next, and it don't look good __________________ Hotrods don't have valve covers

07-06-2014, 02:24 PM	#2
zzlegend Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Reseda, Calif. Posts: 2,188	Re: titles Common practice is some one keeps the body and title and sells the running gear. And builds a new chassis and engine and can register it again. Happens all the time.

07-06-2014, 03:33 PM	#3
ursus Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Oregon Posts: 1,374	Re: titles It also depends on what your friend plans to do. If he wants the engine and frame numbers to match then he is out of luck. However, there are many licensed and registered Model A's without matching numbers simply because the motor was switched out at some point in the past and the DMV accepted it as such for registration purposes. In Oregon I have seen quite a few Model A's that were registered using the number on the engine, but that happened years ago. Many states are now using a national database and this has been problematic for some because an engine and frame having the same numbers may be in different states. I don't know that can be adjudicated, but I heard a story from one of the V8 guys about having his insurance cancelled because he had the same VIN number as a guy in New Jersey and this was after he had owned the car for 8 years!

07-06-2014, 04:51 PM	#5
denis4x4 Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Durango CO Posts: 1,309	Re: titles If your friend has a bill of sale with the frame number on it, chances are the DMV will open an investigation and the guy that kept the body and title could be in a world of hurt. __________________ No restorable Model A's were harmed in the building of this truck!

07-06-2014, 04:58 PM	#6
ronn Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: NNNNNNNNJJJJJJJJJJ Posts: 6,785	Re: titles Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) just use your engine # and dont make a big deal out of it................. grinders come in handy.

07-06-2014, 05:46 PM	#8
Willie Krash Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Phoenix, Oregon Posts: 661	Re: titles I think a VIN number may be a felony in some states but engines come and go.. For the OP, look here. http://chevellestuff.net/vin/aamva_section1.pdf Oregon, We do not check for VINs on all major parts. If the public VIN is missing, altered, etc., the vehicle may be referred to police, who in turn may check VINs on various parts. As long as the vehicle and/or parts are not identified as stolen, we are primarily concerned with having a good public VIN. A number may be reassigned if the public VIN is missing, and police do not determine the vehicle to be stolen. Police may assign numbers to component parts but this is rarely done. I do not know how accurate the PDF is...Oregon is pretty easy going. I brought my A in Kali, took it to the Oregon DMV, they did a quick look at the motor number and issued a title. My Model T has a fantasy engine number from some rebuilder, numbers and letters.I went to the DMV as I purchased the car locally. They didn't even want to see the car. Go to the State Police and ask them. I think you'll be OK. __________________ Mike Stitt "A business that make nothing but money is a poor business." -Henry Ford

07-06-2014, 07:03 PM	#9
Ross/Kzoo Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Richland Mi. Posts: 1,172	Re: titles I know this isn't Oregon but in Michigan they now run the motor # in a national database and within an hour I got the go ahead to proceed and in 2 weeks the title was in my mailbox. I think the state was only interested in the sales transfer tax. Maybe try registering it in an adjacent state.

07-06-2014, 07:38 PM	#10
ursus Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Oregon Posts: 1,374	Re: titles I actually saw one Oregon Model A sporting a VIN number that was based on one of the Richmond, California Ford factory rebuilt engines. It started with an "RF" followed by a 5-digit number. Good enough for the DMV.

07-07-2014, 08:28 AM	#13
Wick Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Gwynn's Island Va Posts: 1,386	Re: titles I have bought Model A's and T's from Street rod builders who I figured they kept the Tital for there build. Tell me not to worry it's ez to get a tital.... I guess they will find out someday that the Tital they kept is no good. When I buy a car I get a tital made right away matching the frame and engine # of the car!

07-09-2014, 02:45 AM	#16
Charlville Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: West Berkshire, United Kingdom Posts: 368	Re: titles I imported my Car from the States with a PA title, the title was against the engine number, no VIN visible as often the case with A's __________________ Kevin Flood West Berkshire UK Member MAFCGB, VHRA, SAH, Brooklands Trust Sporadic progress on My 1929 Sport Coupe can be found here along with my blog http://automotiveamerican.com/

07-09-2014, 07:57 AM	#17
kelley's restoration Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: 60046 Posts: 888	Re: titles I had to have a vin attached to my model a phaeton because it had a b motor and no visible numbers on the frame it was perfect....now I can put the body on anything and not have to worry about the title hell I could put it on a 4x4 chevy frame and it would still be legal lol...that would never happen tk __________________ anyone need some Model A restoration work done in Illinois? shoot me an email for pics and information [email protected]

07-09-2014, 12:33 PM	#19
Model A Man Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Sarasota Florida Posts: 604	Re: titles I moved from California to Oregon last year and registered our four old cars (3 models A's and one 1930 Chrysler) 2 model A's and the 1930 Chrysler were registered using the motor number. the third model A was registered using a California vin plate that had been attached to the B pillar. My wife and I live in a small town so there was no line at the DMV and only took about fifteen minutes for each car.