The Ford Barn

RockHillWill · 07-11-2016, 06:12 PM

It has taken a while, but finished the upper wheel in the last few days. I had started on it when my wheeling machine had the 1/2" axle diameter, and had to re-machine the bore and hub areas for the 3/4" diameter for the Hoosier Profile's upper wheel adjuster 'kit'. The flange area lightening holes were recently cut on the water jet because this was a very heavy upper wheel to hold in place while inserting the axle.

Wheels 001.jpg

Wheels 002.jpg

Wheels 003.jpg

Wheels 004.jpg

BRENT in 10-uh-C · 07-11-2016, 09:19 PM

Why not a urethane lower anvil??

RockHillWill · 07-12-2016, 06:40 AM

I have a small box of 'blank' steel lower anvils that I had made in a bulk purchase, but I think urethane would be a great option.

Kevin in NJ · 07-12-2016, 08:27 AM

What is wrong with a dull chisel and someone under holding a dolly.

What is interesting is figuring out the line as it goes rear ward. That area seems to get lost quick.

BRENT in 10-uh-C · 07-12-2016, 08:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RockHillWill

I have a small box of 'blank' steel lower anvils that I had made in a bulk purchase, but I think urethane would be a great option.

Makes perfect sense. Was it you that shared with me how there is a formula for figuring out the contact point diameters so they both rotate a full 360° simultaneously?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kevin in NJ

What is wrong with a dull chisel and someone under holding a dolly.

IMO, nothing other than the quality of the workmanship on that crease which would include the time necessary to do it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kevin in NJ

What is interesting is figuring out the line as it goes rear ward. That area seems to get lost quick.

Actually, for those of us who have purchased the appropriate factory fender print, it has that detail marked very clearly. Just follow the print dimensions, and you can't go wrong. Again, it is all in the details.

.

Cool Hand Lurker · 07-12-2016, 01:10 PM

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[QUOTE=BRENT in 10-uh-C;1322608]Makes perfect sense. Was it you that shared with me how there is a formula for figuring out the contact point diameters so they both rotate a full 360° simultaneously?

Why would that be important, Brent?

Also, RHW, does this create the proper crease in one pass or are more needed?

Thanks

BRENT in 10-uh-C · 07-12-2016, 01:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cool Hand Lurker

Makes perfect sense. Was it you that shared with me how there is a formula for figuring out the contact point diameters so they both rotate a full 360° simultaneously?

Why would that be important, Brent?

Well, you are correct on this die since he is using a Wheeling Machine, it wouldn't matter. In a beading machine it would. Since I brought it up about the beading machine, I will share what I have experienced, and hopefully this makes sense. Most better quality beading machines have two shafts that turn opposite directions at the same feed rate. If one die is of a larger diameter, the circumference differences cause the metal to be pulled at different feed rates which can cause distortion and pinching. We honestly don't use a bead roller much anymore so I have about forgotten how to calculate how to size the dies when fabricating them. I'm not sure if it is calculated at the furthest portion of the stretched metal, -or half-way between the base metal and the raised area.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cool Hand Lurker

Also, RHW, does this create the proper crease in one pass or are more needed?

Thanks

I am not Will but my guess is that you would make it in one pass. I think it would be very easy to have a malfunction if you made multiple passes.

RockHillWill · 07-12-2016, 01:46 PM

I made this set of rollers anticipating building some Model A fenders out of both aluminum and steel. We have scanned a number of Model A fenders, and I am building some wooden egg crate bucks to build them from. There would be no existing line to use a 'dull chisel and dollie', etc. The depth of the crease would vary by raising and lowering the lower anvil holder. I made this initially to 'imprint' the end of the character line to suit the Fine Point judges.

A_front_3.jpg

A_front_4.jpg

A_frontBuck2.jpg

ModelABuck1.jpg

Cool Hand Lurker · 07-12-2016, 02:00 PM

[QUOTE=BRENT in 10-uh-C;1322730]Well, you are correct on this die since he is using a Wheeling Machine, it wouldn't matter. In a beading machine it would. Since I brought it up about the beading machine, I will share what I have experienced, and hopefully this makes sense. Most better quality beading machines have two shafts that turn opposite directions at the same feed rate. If one die is of a larger diameter, the circumference differences cause the metal to be pulled at different feed rates which can cause distortion and pinching. We honestly don't use a bead roller much anymore so I have about forgotten how to calculate how to size the dies when fabricating them. I'm not sure if it is calculated at the furthest portion of the stretched metal, -or half-way between the base metal and the raised area.

OK, I wasn't even thinking of the beading machine. I don't think I could even fit a fender into my bead machine. But good points on the diameters of the bead dies. I was about to turn some special dies and didn't even think of the sizing problem. Thanks.

Kevin in NJ · 07-12-2016, 05:00 PM

It makes sense the beading dies need to be at the same radius where they are doing the work.

FWIW, I was joking around with the chisel comment. The wheels are a great idea for those with the tooling and need. All I could think was how much easier it would have been to fix my creases. Then I am thinking about the fact you have to kind of do it right the first time.

Careful mark out and use of a dull chisel with the help of a friend is what is probably best for the average guy.

RockHillWill · 07-12-2016, 07:36 PM

If I understand the question correctly about the beading die diameters, my opinion is that there is no formula, it's only that the contact points on the dies should be the same diameter. That usually means that the starting diameters are often not the same for the rollers.

Cool Hand Lurker · 07-13-2016, 09:17 AM

If you want a formula for the beading dies try this:
Male die: say 1" radius
Female die: made from stock that is equal to male die radius + depth of cut.
At 1" radius of male die and 1/4" depth of female cut that is (1 + 1/4 = 1-1/4 radius of female die stock)
IF that is right. If not, somebody will tell me....

07-11-2016, 06:12 PM	#1
RockHillWill Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Rock Hill, S.C. Posts: 985	Upper and lower wheels for putting the crease in a Model A front fender. It has taken a while, but finished the upper wheel in the last few days. I had started on it when my wheeling machine had the 1/2" axle diameter, and had to re-machine the bore and hub areas for the 3/4" diameter for the Hoosier Profile's upper wheel adjuster 'kit'. The flange area lightening holes were recently cut on the water jet because this was a very heavy upper wheel to hold in place while inserting the axle. Wheels 001.jpg Wheels 002.jpg Wheels 003.jpg Wheels 004.jpg __________________ Uncle Bud says "too soon old, too late smart!"

07-11-2016, 09:19 PM	#2
BRENT in 10-uh-C Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Eastern Tennessee Posts: 11,507	Re: Upper and lower wheels for putting the crease in a Model A front fender. Why not a urethane lower anvil?? __________________ . BRENT in 10-uh-C . www.model-a-ford.com ...(...Finally Updated!! ) .

07-12-2016, 06:40 AM	#3
RockHillWill Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Rock Hill, S.C. Posts: 985	Re: Upper and lower wheels for putting the crease in a Model A front fender. I have a small box of 'blank' steel lower anvils that I had made in a bulk purchase, but I think urethane would be a great option. __________________ Uncle Bud says "too soon old, too late smart!" Last edited by RockHillWill; 07-12-2016 at 07:14 AM.

07-12-2016, 08:27 AM	#4
Kevin in NJ Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: South East NJ Posts: 3,398	Re: Upper and lower wheels for putting the crease in a Model A front fender. What is wrong with a dull chisel and someone under holding a dolly. What is interesting is figuring out the line as it goes rear ward. That area seems to get lost quick.

07-12-2016, 01:10 PM	#6
Cool Hand Lurker Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: So Minn Posts: 1,565	Re: Upper and lower wheels for putting the crease in a Model A front fender. Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) [QUOTE=BRENT in 10-uh-C;1322608]Makes perfect sense. Was it you that shared with me how there is a formula for figuring out the contact point diameters so they both rotate a full 360° simultaneously? Why would that be important, Brent? Also, RHW, does this create the proper crease in one pass or are more needed? Thanks

07-12-2016, 01:46 PM	#8
RockHillWill Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Rock Hill, S.C. Posts: 985	Re: Upper and lower wheels for putting the crease in a Model A front fender. I made this set of rollers anticipating building some Model A fenders out of both aluminum and steel. We have scanned a number of Model A fenders, and I am building some wooden egg crate bucks to build them from. There would be no existing line to use a 'dull chisel and dollie', etc. The depth of the crease would vary by raising and lowering the lower anvil holder. I made this initially to 'imprint' the end of the character line to suit the Fine Point judges. A_front_3.jpg A_front_4.jpg A_frontBuck2.jpg ModelABuck1.jpg __________________ Uncle Bud says "too soon old, too late smart!" Last edited by RockHillWill; 07-12-2016 at 04:00 PM.

07-12-2016, 02:00 PM	#9
Cool Hand Lurker Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: So Minn Posts: 1,565	Re: Upper and lower wheels for putting the crease in a Model A front fender. [QUOTE=BRENT in 10-uh-C;1322730]Well, you are correct on this die since he is using a Wheeling Machine, it wouldn't matter. In a beading machine it would. Since I brought it up about the beading machine, I will share what I have experienced, and hopefully this makes sense. Most better quality beading machines have two shafts that turn opposite directions at the same feed rate. If one die is of a larger diameter, the circumference differences cause the metal to be pulled at different feed rates which can cause distortion and pinching. We honestly don't use a bead roller much anymore so I have about forgotten how to calculate how to size the dies when fabricating them. I'm not sure if it is calculated at the furthest portion of the stretched metal, -or half-way between the base metal and the raised area. OK, I wasn't even thinking of the beading machine. I don't think I could even fit a fender into my bead machine. But good points on the diameters of the bead dies. I was about to turn some special dies and didn't even think of the sizing problem. Thanks.

07-12-2016, 05:00 PM	#10
Kevin in NJ Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: South East NJ Posts: 3,398	Re: Upper and lower wheels for putting the crease in a Model A front fender. It makes sense the beading dies need to be at the same radius where they are doing the work. FWIW, I was joking around with the chisel comment. The wheels are a great idea for those with the tooling and need. All I could think was how much easier it would have been to fix my creases. Then I am thinking about the fact you have to kind of do it right the first time. Careful mark out and use of a dull chisel with the help of a friend is what is probably best for the average guy.

07-12-2016, 07:36 PM	#11
RockHillWill Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Rock Hill, S.C. Posts: 985	Re: Upper and lower wheels for putting the crease in a Model A front fender. If I understand the question correctly about the beading die diameters, my opinion is that there is no formula, it's only that the contact points on the dies should be the same diameter. That usually means that the starting diameters are often not the same for the rollers. __________________ Uncle Bud says "too soon old, too late smart!"

07-13-2016, 09:17 AM	#12
Cool Hand Lurker Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: So Minn Posts: 1,565	Re: Upper and lower wheels for putting the crease in a Model A front fender. If you want a formula for the beading dies try this: Male die: say 1" radius Female die: made from stock that is equal to male die radius + depth of cut. At 1" radius of male die and 1/4" depth of female cut that is (1 + 1/4 = 1-1/4 radius of female die stock) IF that is right. If not, somebody will tell me....