8BA compression issues

[mrlaser]

Actually I am away for a week. I will follow-up when I can get back on the " problem". Thanks for your interest.

[mrlaser]

As promised I am again posting with an update on the issues that I have been experiencing.

As far as cam timing goes. What I have is identical to that shown on the engine in Mart's attached video, (as seen between approximately 18 min and 22 min in the video). I have verified the exhaust valve movement with the dial indicator shown in the attachment.

https://youtu.be/dn446jjCVR

He is demonstrating valve action on an earlier engine than mine, but it does look like a "crusty" old original. Also, since my cam was reground, I'm not sure what settings were recommended by the cam shop. As I may have previously mentioned, the original engine builder has passed away.

On previous posts, I have mentioned how slowly the engine turns over on 6 volts. When checking the grounds and the cable at the starter lug, I noticed that the starter case was stamped "12 V ". As a result, I connected a 12 V battery to the starter side of the solenoid leaving the "key" side connected to the 6 volt battery, then turned the key to the " on " position ( not using the "start" feature). When the starter was activated by directly connecting it to the 12 volt battery, the engine turned over rapidly. With that setup, repeat compression checks resulted in readings ranging from 78-90 PSI.

In spite of this, there was still no firing. I next checked the intensity of the spark which was regular, but very weak. It would only jump a gap of 1/16" when the center coil wire was held near a head bolt. I located a FoMoCo set of points and condenser and added another ground from the engine to the frame with no change in the intensity of the spark. I have a NAPA. Echlin coil coming next week to use in place of the "off shore" coil that I now have. The distributor is an unmodified, cast iron type LoadoMatic with the cast iron timing cover. We'll see if that helps.

BTW, the carburetor is squirting fuel when the accelerator linkage is pumped.

All very frustrating. Looking for any and all suggestions. Thanks to all who have contributed their knowledge and help thus far.

[tubman]

Good luck. I find one of the most gratifying parts of this hobby is the initial start-up of a new (or revived long-slumbering) engine.

[mrlaser]

Thanks, I'll probably need that luck.

[Bored&Stroked]

You'll get through this Mr Laser . . . you have the right attitude and are not afraid to get your hands dirty. Best of luck with your startup!

B&S

[mrlaser]

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

I'm hopeful. Thank you.

[Bored&Stroked]

Sounds like you're onto at least one issue. Given that it has almost no spark, it surely isn't going to start. Given your compression readings - seems like the rings really aren't seated (and as it's a new engine, not terribly surprising). Once you get a good ignition on it, we can only hope it will fire. Make sure the coil you're going to use has the correct voltage going to it . . . good luck!

[mrlaser]

Thanks once again B&S.

[Sid]

Be sure that the ignition wire goes to the - on the coil goes to the key and the + goes to the distributor. If you have an ohm meter check the coil. You put one lead on the + and the other on the - terminal. You want about 1.5 ohm. If all checks out Maybe hotwire the coil and see if spark improves. Neg batt. to neg - coil and see if you get better spark.

[mrlaser]

I'm sorry that I failed to mention that I have also tried to directly connect the coil to the battery as well as being sure that the coil was connected correctly. Early on I had connected the coil incorrectly and melted the fiber block on points. Haven't made that mistake again.I have also used a multimeter to check the coil but I haven't known what the exact specifications for this particular coil should be. It's hard to remember everything that has been tried when typing for this thread. I really appreciate any and all suggestions that the members of this forum have offered. Thanks to all.

[JSeery]

What coil are you running?

[mrlaser]

It is a 6 volt canister type, purchased from one e of the well known early Ford parts suppliers. There is no significant information on the box.

[mrlaser]

FINALLY!! After replacing the coil with the one manufactured in the USA, the engine tried to start. I had set the distributor to the TDC position on #1 to check the spark intensity. The grounded plug had a vigorous,bright blue spark . Without changing anything, I replaced the plug and plug wire and turned the key to the "on" position. The cylinder fired as the key was turned and moved the crankshaft pulley nearly 45 degrees from the TDC. position. I haven't tried anything else yet because of other commitments. Hopeful.

[Sid]

Coils don't really care if they are 6 volt or 12 volt. On a 12 volt system the resistor cuts voltage nearly in half anyway. It's the ohm rating to be concerned with. 1.5 or thereabouts on primary side is what you want. To test the secondary side put your meter on 20K. Put one lead on the + post and the other lead in the coil tower. You want a reading of around 9,000 give or take 1,000 or so. 3.0 ohm on primary side is usually considered a 12 volt coil. Also is there any chance you purchased a bad condenser?

[JSeery]

Originally Posted by Sid

Coils don't really care if they are 6 volt or 12 volt. On a 12 volt system the resistor cuts voltage nearly in half anyway. It's the ohm rating to be concerned with. 1.5 or thereabouts on primary side is what you want. To test the secondary side put your meter on 20K. Put one lead on the + post and the other lead in the coil tower. You want a reading of around 9,000 give or take 1,000 or so. 3.0 ohm on primary side is usually considered a 12 volt coil. Also is there any chance you purchased a bad condenser?

Sid, this depends on the coil. Different coils have different internal ohm ratings. A lot of the older coils were basically the same (around 1.5 ohm internal resistance) and would work on 6v without a ballast resistor and on 12v with something around 1.5 ohm ballast resistor. BUT, there are 3.0 ohm coils and coils with much less than 1.5 ohms and about everything in between, so you really need to know which coil you are working with. Examples:

The Flame Thrower 40,000V coils have internal resistance rated at 1.5 or 3.0 ohms.
Flame Thrower II coils have lower resistance at 0.6 ohms.
Flame-Thrower III coils have extremely low resistance of 0.32 ohms.

These are just Flame Thrower examples, almost all coil manufactures provide coils with different internal resistance.

Note: The extremely low ohm coils are used with different types of electronic ignitions and not with a points distributor, but some look a lot like a normal coil. It is best to check them if there is any question.

[mrlaser]

Well the first two coils that I had tried tested 4.2 and 3.7 ohms when the multi-meter leads were placed on the pos and neg terminals. When the secondary circuit was tested they had readings of 9.14 and 8.39 K ohms. The NOS NAPA 6 volt, Echlin coil that I installed today had readings of 1.5 ohms on the primary circuit and 9.53 K ohms on the secondary. While I don't pretend to know much about this situation, I do know that the spark was much stronger with this latest coil.
As far as condensers are concerned, I have tried 3 different ones but currently have a genuine FoMoCo one in place with a Motorcraft set of points. The other condensers are of unknown origin.

I'm hoping there's a light at the end of the tunnel and that it's not a train

[Bored&Stroked]

One thing to know Mr Laser is that in many cases if you find a old NOS condenser, it can be shot inside. I would get a new NAPA Echlin condenser - but maybe wait until your next set of tests. It is never good to change two things at once!

[Bored&Stroked]

Glad you have it up and running . . . and I bet you learned a lot in the process. After all the time, effort and money - there is nothing like hearing it start for the first time! Now go drive it hard and get those rings to seat! Good luck and report back . . .

[Black Fifty]

Good for you, Mr Laser! Fantastic news. I have been following along on your epic adventure. You should feel very good about your success.
Mike

[mrlaser]

Thanks. I have certainly learned a lot from the forum members. At times i felt rather discouraged, but took heart from the encouragement offered here. I also realize that others may be experiencing similar issues and benefit from the wealth of information supplied on this site. This is particularly true as fewer and fewer local mechanics familiar with the flathead engine are available locally.

B&S;

I will avoid running without varying loads. This, in spite of an overwhelming urge to "hear it one more time"