Brake adjustments, stick or no stick

[old31]

All the break skidmarks I have from testing, I tell the young kids that those are from me peeling out! The 10 year olds think I am a hero.

[nkaminar]

2 Speed: I am not using my foot or depressing the pedal in any way. Here is the exact procedure:

1. Jack up the car and put jack stands at all four corners.
2. Do one wheel at a time.
3. Turn in the adjustment until the wheel locks.
4. Then back out just to the point where it turns free or with very slight drag.
5. Do a road test.
6. If the car tends to swerve to one side then loosen the front adjustment on that side one notch and try again. Repeat until it stops straight.
7. Do a panic stop at 20 miles per hour. All 4 wheels should leave skid marks and the car should stop in about 25 feet.

The brakes have to be in good shape with the correct 15 degree angle on the front levers with no slack. The brake pedal should feel firm and the brakes should stop the car with less than 2 inches of pedal movement.

The shortest stopping distance is where the brakes are just about to skid. Modern cars do this automatically, but with a Model A it is up to the driver to control the braking.

[2speed]

Originally Posted by nkaminar

2 Speed: I am not using my foot or depressing the pedal in any way. Here is the exact procedure:

1. Jack up the car and put jack stands at all four corners.
2. Do one wheel at a time.
3. Turn in the adjustment until the wheel locks.
4. Then back out just to the point where it turns free or with very slight drag.
5. Do a road test.
6. If the car tends to swerve to one side then loosen the front adjustment on that side one notch and try again. Repeat until it stops straight.
7. Do a panic stop at 20 miles per hour. All 4 wheels should leave skid marks and the car should stop in about 25 feet.

The brakes have to be in good shape with the correct 15 degree angle on the front levers with no slack. The brake pedal should feel firm and the brakes should stop the car with less than 2 inches of pedal movement.

The shortest stopping distance is where the brakes are just about to skid. Modern cars do this automatically, but with a Model A it is up to the driver to control the braking.

So on the "road test" you don't depress the brake pedal?

[jb-ob]

nkaminar, How long to explain adjusting wheel bearings ?? Your turn.

[P.S.]

Now, now... Let's not get nasty.

The fact is- On a nearly 100 year old car, with mechanical brakes, in order to have the best braking performance, you MUST adjust the rods. Once they are adjusted to the rest of the system and flaws in the chassis symmetry and parts wear, then adjustments at the backing plates only can be done. This video is the bottom line in my opinion-

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0zk-0tIAfWQ

[nkaminar]

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Paul, Adjusting the rods should only be done to bring the rods up to their specifications. Any worn parts should be fixed first. After that, all adjustments should only be done with the adjusters. The front levers should be repaired so that there is no slack when they are at the 15 degrees angle. I usually have to add one of the "pills" spacers or replace the pins that go through the king pin. Of course, the brakes must be in good condition to be able to adjust them properly.

If you plan on living long enough that the parts for the rods get worn, then you will have to again adjust them, after fixing the worn parts.

[P.S.]

Originally Posted by nkaminar

Paul, Adjusting the rods should only be done to bring the rods up to their specifications. Any worn parts should be fixed first. After that, all adjustments should only be done with the adjusters. The front levers should be repaired so that there is no slack when they are at the 15 degrees angle. I usually have to add one of the "pills" spacers or replace the pins that go through the king pin. Of course, the brakes must be in good condition to be able to adjust them properly.

If you plan on living long enough that the parts for the rods get worn, then you will have to again adjust them, after fixing the worn parts.

Obviously, worn parts should be replaced, as the video states. I very respectfully disagree that the rod adjustments should never be touched. That is all. There is definitely a need to adjust the rods. At least initially.

[Cape Codder]

I alwayssee 15 degrees foward for the front arm BUT NO mention of rear. WHY?

[P.S.]

Originally Posted by Cape Codder

I always see 15 degrees foward for the front arm BUT NO mention of rear. WHY?

I mention the front and rear brake actuator arm resting and active angles all the time. But I am one small voice. Mine gets drown out by people who have time to post so repeatedly that an unfamiliar reader might assume theirs is the majority opinion.

[old31]

Paul. If you are a small voice, then many people here have a minuscule voice!

[Jim/GA]

Originally Posted by P.S.

Obviously, worn parts should be replaced, as the video states. I very respectfully disagree that the rod adjustments should never be touched. That is all. There is definitely a need to adjust the rods. At least initially.

If Ford did not foresee the need to adjust the brake rod lengths, then why did he make them all adjustable?

He could have lowered his cost of each rod a bit (always a big driver for Henry) by making them all a fixed length. Clearly Ford's engineers understood that the rod lengths were not fixed.

In fact, Ford DID run production for some months with fixed length brake rods (May '28 to Nov. '28). And then they went back to adjustable brake rods. CLEARLY there was (and still is) a need to be able adjust the rods to fit the chassis.

Once the rod lengths are figured out for a specific car, I'd say all further brake adjustment (to compensate for lining wear) can be done (should be done) with just the adjusters on the backing plates.
.

[P.S.]

Originally Posted by Jim/GA

If Ford did not foresee the need to adjust the brake rod lengths, then why did he make them all adjustable?

He could have lowered his cost of each rod a bit (always a big driver for Henry) by making them all a fixed length. Clearly Ford's engineers understood that the rod lengths were not fixed.

In fact, Ford DID run production for some months with fixed length brake rods (May '28 to Nov. '28). And then they went back to adjustable brake rods. CLEARLY there was (and still is) a need to be able adjust the rods to fit the chassis.

Once the rod lengths are figured out for a specific car, I'd say all further brake adjustment (to compensate for lining wear) can be done (should be done) with just the adjusters on the backing plates.
.

I agree!

[Klattu1929]

After reading the various comments here is my take. This would pretty much be an adjustment procedure after going through the brake system. So the 15 degree front arms would be set, hopefully. then set all rods to red book (Ford)spec. Then start adjusting for wheel spin/drag with car jacked. Obviously you don't want full power braking with the pedal on the floor. If you need to adjust rod length to achieve proper braking, adjust them, but, you have to be mindful when adjusting the rods of upsetting the proper geometry of the design. That being said if rods require a huge amount of adjustment outside of spec rather than a bit of tweeking, then maybe there is an underlying problem. What is the saying, "You can't legislate common sense"

[jb-ob]

Klatt,

Reverse your approach.

Before using the 'stick' or any other method, the brake pedal to brake cross shaft needs to be adjusted so the cross shaft outer arms are perfectly vertical. Next twist the backing plate adjusters in to lock hard each brake drum, removing all free play. Now is when the brake rods are adjusted to each backing plate.

Next back off the adjusters, using the 'stick' or not, adjust the brake drum drag to your preferred setting.

IF you have 15 degrees forward on the front brake arm, it ONLY indicates the front brakes have been correctly rebuilt. Anything less you need to re-examine your work.

[Y-Blockhead]

Originally Posted by jb-ob

Klatt,
Before using the 'stick' or any other method, the brake pedal to brake cross shaft needs to be adjusted so the cross shaft outer arms are perfectly vertical..

Do this before doing anything else. This step is often neglected. It is not even mentioned in the youtube video.