Big oil loss on rear sid

[katy]

Remove the oil drain tube, to avoid breaking it, plus it gives more room for the wrench.

[Werner]

Guten Abend!


Thank you for the advices.


The bearing bolts are loosened. I used a 30" extension. I don't know how I'll ever tighten them again with the correct torque.
I did remove the bearing block, which was glued on with silicone rubber (!), with considerable effort. The bearing surface isn't perfect, but still acceptable.


However, I can't find the aluminum/bronze half-moon washer insert mentioned above. There was only a felt insert with a cord pressed into the groove. Have I misunderstood something?

[nkaminar]

There should not be any felt there. The rear seal was only a labyrinth. The bearing looks good but check the clearance. Also check that that there is not any crap in the drain hole or the little tube. The felt has defeated the proper function of the labyrinth and is probably the cause of your oil leak.

The lips on the Babbitt at the rear is your main thrust bearing and it looks in good shape. The other end of the main bearing should also have a molded lip. That controls the reward movement of the crankshaft. With the cap installed, crankshaft should have only a few thousands forward and backwards movement. The bronze or aluminum thrust surface is usually a fix in case the rear lip is damaged.

My advice is to first get rid of all the felt and clean out the oil drain. Then check the bearing clearance using the lockup method shown in the video you listed in Post #24. Then put the cap back and check the fore and aft movement of the crankshaft using a lever of some sort. The movement should be barely perceptible.

If there is felt in the upper portion of the labyrinth then clean it out with a probe or a dental pick.

Use an assembly oil or thick oil when putting the cap back on. Use 65 foot-pounds torque on the nuts. (88 Newton-meters)

Here is a cross section of the Model A engine that shows how the rear bearing is intended to work. https://www.motormayhem.net/wp-uploa...ine-oiling.jpg

[CT Jack]

Werner,
Can you use something like this grade VALVOLINE SYNPOWER ENV C1 5W-30 ENGINE OIL? This is a Euro grade synthethic oil which I would assume is available in your area. Using this grade would not require preheating the oil.

[Werner]

Guten Morgen!


nkaminar,


these are really good tips! If I understand correctly, I don't need the bronze/aluminum washer. The labyrinth remains bare in both grooves?


Unfortunately, it's extremely difficult to pull the pressed-in and glued felt strips out of the upper groove. I'm afraid I won't be able to remove it completely. -


I have another important question, too:
The gentleman who demonstrates the bearing assembly in the helpful video post #24 explains that the bearing clearance shouldn't be measured with a plastic gauge because the heavy flywheel presses against the bearing shell.


As I understand it, this doesn't matter, because this static bearing pressure is also present during driving?




To CT Jack:
I don't preheat the engine because the oil is so thick. I'm a complete engine enthusiast and want to avoid the wear-inducing cold start, because it breaks my heart. That's why both of my classic cars have this electric heater, and every engine start is done at around 50°C.


Beste Gruesse aus nasskaltem Deutschland,
Werner

[nkaminar]

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There are several ways to measure the bearing clearance. Some people use the method in the video, others use a folded piece of aluminum foil in the same way, and some use the Plastigauge. I will use the Plastigauge if the engine is sitting up side down in an engine stand.

My advise to you is to pull the engine and put it on an engine stand and then pull the crankshaft and clean out the groove in the upper portion of the bearing. Then check all the bearing clearances using Plastigauge or other means. Otherwise you are just doing a half-a$$ job.

I understand your reluctance to do that as it is a lot of work and trouble. But in the long run it will be the least amount of work and result in a good running engine that you can rely on. While you are in the engine you can check on the valves, clutch, cam gear, and the many other parts.

Regarding the rear main bearing, or any bearing. The proper clearance results in the journal floating in the center of the bearing due to the pressure in the oil film that is generated by the rotation. If the clearance is not correct all the way around then the floating is defeated which results in knocking and premature bearing failure.

[katy]

If I understand correctly, I don't need the bronze/aluminum washer.

You should have the "Crankshaft rear bearing seal" (as Ford called it), P/N A-6335

[Benson]

If someone has turned the crank to remove the oil slinger when rope seal was installed then there is the additional cost to restore the slinger.

I know in the past it was possible to restore the slinger.

Has slinger been removed? This was a common practice.

[Werner]

Kathy and Benson,


now I'm completely confused. No, my motor doesn't have the A6335 pulley. It only has two grooves in the bearing block. The felt pad was/is located in the rear groove.

[Y-Blockhead]

Originally Posted by Benson

If someone has turned the crank to remove the oil slinger when rope seal was installed then there is the additional cost to restore the slinger.

I know in the past it was possible to restore the slinger.

Has slinger been removed? This was a common practice.

I agree, it appears the slinger was removed and the rope seal was installed. Below is a picture of a crank with the slinger still in place. Check to see if yours looks the same.

[nkaminar]

Would the groove in the felt indicate that the slinger is still there?

[Werner]

Hello,
attached are photos showing the installed crankshaft with the felt worm still stuck inside.PHO00085.jpg




PHO00080.jDankeschoen!PHO00065.jpg

[nkaminar]

It does look like it is modified. But it is not highly polished which may explain why the fiber material is torn up and Werner has a leak.

Can the aluminum piece be rotated out to work on it?

[katy]

Ignore, sorry, my bad

[Werner]

Good eveneing, dear helpers!


I've now taken a clear picture with a macro camera. The felt has been scraped out to a depth of 5 mm.


I misunderstood that part 6335 is located only at the top. The felt worm is pressed into the rear groove at the top in 6335.


Unfortunately, I can't remove the felt bead. It's pressed firmly into the groove. I tried drilling it out with a drill and a thick Bowden cable, but it won't go through.


I would have to remove the entire crankshaft. I'm an old man and don't want to remove the engine again. Six years ago, I had the block welded, replaced the connecting rods with new bearings, renewed the rings, overhauled the oil pump, grinded the valves, etc. Since then, I've only driven 9,000 miles.

I think I'll have to compromise and leave the upper felt bead in place because it's stuck.

Rope i KwLager.jpg_DSC0241.jpg
Any Proposals?


Thanks at all!

[nkaminar]

The aluminum part is a half moon shape, see https://www.snydersantiqueauto.com/p...3981&cat=41685.

You engine is going to leak even if the "seal" is cleared of the fiber because the crankshaft has been modified and the labyrinth has been removed. Your only hope, besides removing the engine and doing some major work, is to somehow install some new material in the "seal" and the lower matching part of the bearing cap. But the part on the crankshaft that rides on the fiber material is rough so it will start to leak again after a thousand miles or so.

Is there someone there who can help you remove the engine and do the work on it? Do you have any kids or grand kids that could help? Here in the States a high school auto shop will take on a project like this for the experience. German engineering is famous world wide for quality. There must be some school there that would like to take on this project.

[Y-Blockhead]

I'm afraid the best solution is the remove the crank, machine smooth the surface where the slinger was and install a Modern Lipped seal. I believe this seal is made by Terry Burtz https://www.snydersantiqueauto.com/p...8770&cat=41685.

[Werner]

Good morning everyone,


sorry if I'm still bothering you again and again. Now I'm completely confused because I thought that removing the lower felt washer and adjusting the bearing play to 0.05 mm would complete my assembly as a good compromise.

Now I don't know which labyrinth was removed. The crankshaft looks like the one in picture #50? _DSC0243.jpg


And now I'm supposed to install another wonm seal at the bottom (e.g., like the front Teflon oil pan seal)?

[Richard Knight]

You are getting very good advice from nakaminar. To reiterate. Your crankshaft has been modified by turning down the outside diameter of what would normally be the slinger part of the labyrinth type seal. Whoever turned it apparently did not have the ability to actually turn it down to a smaller size and polish the surface. They did half of the job. The only thing you can do at this point is fit the bearing clearance and then use some new graphite rope seal material as you saw when you took it apart. It is going to leak. Whoever did that half of a job was misguided.

[Y-Blockhead]

Here is a thread discussing Rope Rear Main Seals. Maybe it will help. There may be others, do a search.

https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showt...rear+main+seal