Adjusting Anti-Chatter Rods

[cadillac512]

Originally Posted by Fredy Decker

I want to temporarily remove the anti chatter rods on my 1940 for cleaning and repainting however they are attached to the frame with FEMALE square headed bolts. A 3/8" ratchet is to big and a 1/4" is too small. Any advise?

https://www.grainger.com/product/GRE...-Socket-51PH15

[deuce_roadster]

I hope most of you know what the purpose of the engine stay rods is. Ford engineers realized that with the transverse rear spring the torque tube style rear end, when you begin to move forward, the rear end rocks slightly forward pushes forward on the transmission and thus the engine. To prevent this action, they put the engine stay rods on that bolt solid to the frame and engine block. They have nothing to do with preventing clutch chatter. When Ford went to an open driveline with 2 parallel rear springs there was no longer any need for them. Someone somewhere thought they were to prevent clutch chatter and the myth began.

[petehoovie]

Originally Posted by deuce_roadster

I hope most of you know what the purpose of the engine stay rods is. Ford engineers realized that with the transverse rear spring the torque tube style rear end, when you begin to move forward, the rear end rocks slightly forward pushes forward on the transmission and thus the engine. To prevent this action, they put the engine stay rods on that bolt solid to the frame and engine block. They have nothing to do with preventing clutch chatter. When Ford went to an open driveline with 2 parallel rear springs there was no longer any need for them. Someone somewhere thought they were to prevent clutch chatter and the myth began.

Great explanation, Deuce!...

[Kube]

Originally Posted by deuce_roadster

I hope most of you know what the purpose of the engine stay rods is. Ford engineers realized that with the transverse rear spring the torque tube style rear end, when you begin to move forward, the rear end rocks slightly forward pushes forward on the transmission and thus the engine. To prevent this action, they put the engine stay rods on that bolt solid to the frame and engine block. They have nothing to do with preventing clutch chatter. When Ford went to an open driveline with 2 parallel rear springs there was no longer any need for them. Someone somewhere thought they were to prevent clutch chatter and the myth began.

Spot on my dear friend. spot on!

[Kube]

Originally Posted by deuce lover

I believe it is a 5/16 " square opening.

That is correct.

[tubman]

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Originally Posted by deuce_roadster

I hope most of you know what the purpose of the engine stay rods is. Ford engineers realized that with the transverse rear spring the torque tube style rear end, when you begin to move forward, the rear end rocks slightly forward pushes forward on the transmission and thus the engine. To prevent this action, they put the engine stay rods on that bolt solid to the frame and engine block. They have nothing to do with preventing clutch chatter. When Ford went to an open driveline with 2 parallel rear springs there was no longer any need for them. Someone somewhere thought they were to prevent clutch chatter and the myth began.

Very true. I think the term was invented by the first guy that left them out after an engine swap. Hurst even offered some pre-load doohickies that were supposed to substitute for them with their engine mount kits for early Fords. They didn't.

[marko39]

Originally Posted by deuce lover

I believe it is a 5/16 " square opening.

i used a piece of key stock to fit and an open end wrench.

[kurt v]

What MARKO said plus heat, they are tight.
kurt

[glennpm]

Originally Posted by glennpm

Sacrifice a 3/8" short extension or 1/2" to 3/8" adapter. Measure the hole and grind the 3/8" extension or adapter to fit. Now you have a new tool for your box :-)

Drain plug 8mm and 5/16" square

https://tinyurl.com/bdmjwedk

https://tinyurl.com/2868tpy3

https://bcfasteners.com/shop/jet-h37...n-plug-socket/

[tubman]

At those prices, I think "Kube" is right; make your own.

The icing on the cake is that Amazon lists a 3/8" drive 3/8" square drain plug socket for $11.82.

[19Fordy]

Here's some info. on aftermarket anti-chatter rods.
https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showt...ds+aftermarket

[richard crow]

they have nothing to do with clutch chater they are eng stay rods on a torque tube drive they hold the eng in place as the rear pusheses the car

[glennpm]

https://www.earlyfordv8.org/forum/vi...ywords=chatter

"I agree with 42. All of the old Fords I've owned had some clutch chatter, some more than others. The Ford drive line went basically unchanged from the beginning thru 1948, mostly due to Henry's rigid opposition to change. As said, the problem arises as the rear axle pushes forward on the torque tube, leaving the motor mounts to absorb the thrust. [Pulls when gong into reverse and pushes when going forward] It is tempting to blame the clutch, itself, for the problem, but there are other factors to consider. The rear spring must be intact, with clips in place, and firmly attached to the crossmember. The spring shackles must have pins with little or no play. The rear hubs must be tight on the tapers. If you hear a "clunk" as you drive, check them. The u-joint housing must be tightened over the ball, with the cork seals in place. Lastly, the clutch release linkage and clutch housing bushings must be free of play. One end is attached to the frame, with the other end at the release shaft thru the bell housing. Any movement of the drive train is magnified by the linkage. The arm on the release shaft moves a fraction of the pedal travel, and as the engine moves on its mounts, this is translated into an irregular operation of the pressure plate, causing much of the "shudder". Lots of remedies have been tried. I've attached one such. None will remove all the problem, but you can reduce it to a tolerable level."

"One approach that I didn't include in my previous post is that sometimes the chatter, particularly if severe, can be reduced by placing the car on sturdy stands with all four wheels off the ground, then loosening the bolts that attach the transmission to the engine. After starting the engine and placing the transmission in gear, let it run a bit, work the clutch a few times, then cinch down the bolts. This will often reduce any mismatch between the center line of the transmission and the pilot bearing in the flywheel. Just be very careful when working under a car on stands, particularly when it is running. I prefer to do it with the car on a hoist in the shop, of course."

https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showp...0&postcount=22

"The torque tube design was primarily to function well in forward motion. When you operate the vehicle in reverse gear, the rear axle tries to pull the cup of the tube away from the ball cover of the transmission. It can't move a lot unless there is wear on the components. The chatter rods weren't designed to help hold anything but the engine & transmission. The chatter might be the tube against the ball cover or as was said, a U-joint used to moving in forward motion may not work as well in reverse motion.

The same may hold true for the clutch plate & cover that are worn more with forward lock up but not so much with reverse motion. Wear patterns on flywheels & clutch plates can be pretty interesting to look at depending on how easy or hard the operator is on them."

https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showp...3&postcount=23

"You can chatter about the steady rods importance but most likely the chatter is due to the incorrect pedal throw or poor clutch pedal adjustment. If you have changed the engine combination , trans combination or made a pedal arrangement that does not use the parts that were designed for the vehicle, the pedal ratio or free play adjustment is incorrect. Second place to look has been brought up and that is poor or loose rear engine mount cushions."

AI generated response, [URL=https://tinyurl.com/msdr9ete[/URL]

"Ford employed this [transverse springs with torque tube] design in its vehicles up through 1948, primarily due to the use of transverse leaf springs that could not withstand the forward thrust forces generated during acceleration.
The system was later abandoned with the introduction of the "new Ford" in 1948, which adopted a Hotchkiss-type rear axle with parallel springs at the rear and independent coils at the front.
Other manufacturers, including Buick, Nash, American Motors (AMC), and later high-performance vehicles like the Porsche 924, 928, and C5/C6 Corvettes, also used variations of the torque tube design."

[richard crow]

back in the day when we did a clutch on a ford we always used a new clutch from ford, if you wanted chatter you bought a rebuilt.i have five fords none have chatter if i do a clutch today on an old ford i send it to fort whyne clutch co & have it rebuil dont buy a new one from them all the new clutches today are from china

[deuce_roadster]

I thought someone here said Ft. Wayne wasn't doing clutches anymore, or the company was gone or bought out. Any recent info?

[petehoovie]

https://fortwayneclutch.com/

Specializing in clutch & driveline for all makes & models of auto, truck, tractor, agricultural, antique, high performance, industrial, obsolete!

[tubman]

Last time I talked to them was 3 or 4 years ago and they weren't taking 8BA clutch cores and wanted to sell me a new one made by "some guy named Wang Fu" (their words). I'd ask a few pointed questions before dealing with them.

I went elsewhere.

[Kube]

Originally Posted by tubman

Last time I talked to them was 3 or 4 years ago and they weren't taking 8BA clutch cores and wanted to sell me a new one made by "some guy named Wang Fu" (their words). I'd ask a few pointed questions before dealing with them.

I went elsewhere.

Going elsewhere was a wise decision. Ft. Wayne was "the place" for many, many years. Not any longer.
I would not consider anything from them at this point.

[19Fordy]

I took a 3/8 square 3/8 extension and ground it down to 5/16 square to remove my anti-chatter rods.