Solution for audio system in model A?

[Hitman]

Since you’ll use your phone and Bluetooth, I’d go this route:

https://www.loudluggageco.com

Nothing to hide, no wires to run, plus it will be a cool conversation piece.

[DRG-ler]

Looks very interesting, but is ultimately the "box" on or behind the seat that I didn't want. Sorry ...

[Anteek29]

I heartily concur with what GZ wrote!

[dumb person]

Originally Posted by DRG-ler

Who has ideas where you can install the largest possible woofer in the car without being seen?
A solution to put a bass box behind or on the seat is out of the question for me. How did other people solve the problem?

I'm looking forward to the lively discussion.

Greetings from Berlin
Andy

I often wanted to put one in an external truck on the back of the car.
This wouldn't be so easy to hear inside. But would be hilarious from the outside.

Once installed a sub' inside a rear seat. Worked well. Passengers liked it?

Although... putting one of these under a seat seems like a good idea?
https://www.ebay.com/itm/10-Under-Se...-/192776453090

[burner31]

Have a Bluetooth speaker velcroed to the header, plays over the phone.
Small. no holes, no wires, easy to remove, I hardly/rarely ever use it tho...

[40 Deluxe]

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Why "multi-task"? Separate your activities! Listen to your music at home, with all your fancy gear. When you go out in your Model A, just drive! Enjoy the experience. Listen to the sounds of your surroundings, which constantly are changing. Listen to the sounds of the engine, as well as the entire car. Focus on adjusting the timing and GAV for changing conditions. Notice how the sounds change. There is so much to notice, to keep your mind occupied and focused on the task at hand (driving, not zoned out on electronic distraction)!
My goodness, people used to drive their A's all over Europe (and clear across the US) without the need for external entertainment!

[DRG-ler]

EXACTLY!!! "My goodness" .... Why can not people just accept that other people have different opinions and ideas? Why does someone always have to be missionized? We used to have an emperor ... I live TODAY ... NOW ... A lot has changed.

Andy

[Bill G]

Andy, you asked a pretty reasonable question in my opinion. A subwoofer needs to move a lot of air and usually needs to be enclosed in just the right box to resonate well. Perhaps something under the back seat would work, but even though that is probably the only unused space in a Tudor, it isn't much. I don't think that a speaker mounted in the kick panel or inside a door panel will be good enough to be a subwoofer. They would just be ordinary speakers. Also, a subwoofer does need some pretty heavy gauge wire to drive enough current to get the wattage out of them. I think you have a design dilemma on your hands.

[bettlesr]

I used a 2000-2004 Subaru Outback under seat subwoofer. It uses speaker level inputs and a 12v supply. It turns on when the signal comes in the inputs.

[bavArian]

Interesting thread, mainly because the same idea of music in the A is stuck in my head too! I have a good stereo in each of my cars, but the A is still giving me headaches on how to get good audio with minimal to no visual alterations of the interior.



I had similar ideas as the OP, but with a small 4-channel DSP-amplifier. Something along the lines of 2-way-front and a small subwoofer, actively controlled for clearer sound and higher efficiency.
Unfortunately, space is kinda rare in the roadster and here in Germany there is no practically no way to install anything modern in such an old car without running into problems with the TÜV, our technical equivalent of the DMV.
Depending on how much you want to invest and how high your standards are I'd say go for either small volume kickwoofers like the Peerless SLS 6.5 in a closed box under the A-pillar and a smaller broadband speaker just under the windscreen. The subwoofer would likely have to be under the seat in a roadster as there isn't really any alternative. Even then you can only go for a rather slim 10". It should be sufficient for about 50 to 60 Hz though, nothing for HipHop or eletronic music, but good enough for Pop and Rock. (curse you if you listen to Rap or Dubstep in a Model A anyway)


The biggest problem is the supply for the amplifiers. There are some step-up-switchers from 6 to 12 volts that can go 100 Watts or higher, but the original generator is the bottleneck. As far as I know it can't really provide much more energy than is required for the lights and the engine and certainly not enough to power a decent stereo.
I'd guess that you'd have to have an Alternator and a 12 volts conversion.


The easy way is to just use high-quality in-ears or headphones, but that kinda looks odd and I'm not really a fan of headphones.

[DRG-ler]

That's why i wanted to put the sub 'in a truck box. Room in it for a couple of 12 volt batteries that can be charged at home.

Yes, the idea has already been mentioned, is correct, but I don't really like it. I do not want any additional batteries that I have to charge at home. Which are always empty when it is the least convenient, and then possibly still be deeply discharged and damaged. No, the system should be able to be operated from on-board equipment as far as possible, and it should be possible to simply switch it off using the main switch on the battery.
The original battery sits under the floorboard where the driver has his feet. This is the point in the car that is most frequently entered. I don't think installing a loudspeaker there is optimal.

@ bavArian, greetings first to Bavaria! (If I take that from the nickname correctly ...)

The first thing I would be interested in is which amplifier you were thinking of. I hadn't found a small four-channel with DSP. I already had a Mosconi Pico II on the screen, but even this one uses too much power. My voltage converter only manages 80W continuous load, 130W peak.
I would also like to use the two-way front, but I don't like the tweeters on the Dashrail. These are too obvious there. They don't stand out so much above the windscreen, I think.

You write, "a small kickwoofer in a closed box under the A-pillar". Uh, did you take off the footwell panel? I can only reach a construction height of 4.5 cm there. Since I'm already on the sheet metal. If I now screw an MDF multiplex board onto it, I might reach 6.5 cm. I have to look for an extremely flat speaker set. In my view, there is no way of thinking of a housing where you could still install it. I rather think that you even have to find a loudspeaker here that has a very hard suspension so that it is not damaged in "free-air mode". I just looked at the Peerless, but I have too little idea about it to rate it. So I have to read further and acquire further knowledge.
50-60Hz is "actually" not enough for me. As a fan of trance and techno, you also want to feel lower frequencies.

Fortunately, as far as the generator is concerned, I already have an alternator ... with 78 amps. Unfortunately, my previous owner did not make a 12V conversion, so I now have to live with 6V. Current without end, but voltage, ... well.

But I was just outside again ... Because my rear side panel is currently removed, I could see that there is another 20x30cm space under the window crank under the window, installation depth about 9cm. There would be room for an 8 "woofer. But again not without problems. Again, it is not easy to build a housing. Free air would be better here. And, ... even if you don't drive such cars in the rain , but at least when washing the car, all the water that runs down the window drips onto the speaker, not ideal.
Is there actually a window seal? I think I'm going to open a new topic.


Thanks bettlesr for the picture.

Greetings Andy

[Penthode]

I guess I am the odd one out here. I like to drive my model A to better appreciate the period it was built. It seems to me odd that modern appliances such as music systems would be installed. Then again I think twice about any mechanical changes or updates which was not original to the vehicle. I will concede to adding a period fuse box to improve electrical safety or an oil filter to extend the period between oil changes.

The era of the Model A just misses the introduction of 6.3 volt filament vacuum tubes in 1932 which made automotive radios practical. The cost of a new car radio in those days was about the value of the second hand Model A by 1935.

Anyway I agree with those who like to listen to the engine RPM or any unusual knock that may appear in a journey.

[bavArian]

Originally Posted by DRG-ler

@ bavArian, greetings first to Bavaria! (If I take that from the nickname correctly ...)

The first thing I would be interested in is which amplifier you were thinking of. I hadn't found a small four-channel with DSP. I already had a Mosconi Pico II on the screen, but even this one uses too much power. My voltage converter only manages 80W continuous load, 130W peak.
I would also like to use the two-way front, but I don't like the tweeters on the Dashrail. These are too obvious there. They don't stand out so much above the windscreen, I think.

You write, "a small kickwoofer in a closed box under the A-pillar". Uh, did you take off the footwell panel? I can only reach a construction height of 4.5 cm there. Since I'm already on the sheet metal. If I now screw an MDF multiplex board onto it, I might reach 6.5 cm. I have to look for an extremely flat speaker set. In my view, there is no way of thinking of a housing where you could still install it. I rather think that you even have to find a loudspeaker here that has a very hard suspension so that it is not damaged in "free-air mode". I just looked at the Peerless, but I have too little idea about it to rate it. So I have to read further and acquire further knowledge.
50-60Hz is "actually" not enough for me. As a fan of trance and techno, you also want to feel lower frequencies.

Fortunately, as far as the generator is concerned, I already have an alternator ... with 78 amps. Unfortunately, my previous owner did not make a 12V conversion, so I now have to live with 6V. Current without end, but voltage, ... well.

But I was just outside again ... Because my rear side panel is currently removed, I could see that there is another 20x30cm space under the window crank under the window, installation depth about 9cm. There would be room for an 8 "woofer. But again not without problems. Again, it is not easy to build a housing. Free air would be better here. And, ... even if you don't drive such cars in the rain , but at least when washing the car, all the water that runs down the window drips onto the speaker, not ideal.
Is there actually a window seal? I think I'm going to open a new topic.

You guessed correctly.
But you're thinking in the wrong way. Basically, it doesn't matter how much power the amp CAN put out, it depends on HOW MUCH of that power you use. So you should be looking at speaker with a high efficiency so you can realise higher volumes with the little power that you can draw. With the highs and mids that's not really any problem as they don't use much power at a "reasonable" volume anyway.

Unfortunately, the lower frequencies are a bit of a problem. High efficiency results in bigger diameters for the same "low" frequency. So you have to make a compromise, either in max. volume or low frequency range.
The consumed idle-power of a digital DSP-amp isn't listed most of the time, but I'd estimate it to be around 2 amps at 12 volts. Meaning that you'd have about 50 W for the rest of the system, which should be enough if you're listening at reasonable volume with efficient speakers.



The speakers I mentioned have a mounting depth of about 86 mm, they're just the first ones that came to mind because I'll be using them in another car as part of a 3-way-frontsystem where space for the low channel is an issue too.
So you'll either have to make a new sidepanel which reaches a bit more into the footwell area for both sides or look for a speaker with lower mounting depth. I don't know if you can find one though, back when I searched around for the other car that was the only speaker which was reasonable in size AND prize. I've tested them a while back in makeshift wooden boxes with about 2,5 litres net-volume, and they were awesome, but that was in a 3-way-system. I don't know how good they work in the mid-frequencies.



I can understand the "need" for low frequencies, I'm listening to a wide range of Classic Rock all the way to HipHop and Trance/EDM so I like a good subwoofer too.

A subwoofer in the trunk MAY work if it's connected to the interior, if you're talking about the add-on trunk on luggage racks that's not an option. You'll entertain the pedestrians but you won't hear much inside, let alone "feel" anything.
You would have to try out how much can be heard through the upholstery in the A. Don't expect much though I guess.




If you really want to install a sound system in your A, I'd recommend you to register at www.klangfuzzis.de and ask around if someone has an idea on how to do it there. It seems that your standards for audio reproduction aren't "basic" if you mention Mosconi-amplifiers. There are some absolute car-audio-freaks in that forum, maybe they have a good idea. I doubt that you'll find someone with experience for this car though.

[Badpuppy]

Consider multiple speakers - 4 @ 4" speakers have the same area as one 8", and may be an easier fit. Use identical speakers - wire two pairs in parallel and connect the two pairs in series to get the same impedance.

https://www.jimkyle.com/wp-content/u...1/Sweet-16.pdf

(You will have to read it in English; Google can't translate .pdf's.}

[bavArian]

4 4" speakers may have the same membrane area as 1 8", but they usually don't have the same linear stroke. Find me a decent 4" that plays below 100 Hz in a small enclosure and isn't sub 85 db/W/m, that's gonna be a hard task.

Maybe something like several Faital Pro 3 would be usable, but with an lmax of 1.8 mm I don't think they'll be loud enough at lower frequencies for the use in a Model A.
Also you'll get mean interferences in the mid-range when using many speakers in close proximity without proper time alignment.


The easiest (and by far cheapest) solution is definitely a nice pair of in-ears, as much as I hate to admit that.

[DRG-ler]

Consider multiple speakers - 4 @ 4 "speakers have the same area as one 8", ...

4 4 "speakers may have the same membrane area as 1 8", ...

So folks ... NOW but !!! Mathematics is not your strong point here! an 8 "woofer has the FOUR FOLD membrane surface of a 4" woofer !!!

But be it ... I could actually hide an 8 "woofer on the left and right in the rear side panel. That would give me a mathematical membrane area slightly smaller than a 12" woofer. And I think with 8 "speakers the selection, the frequency range and the efficiency is significantly better than with 4" speakers.

@ bavArian ...
I definitely won't have headphones. I want a car hifi solution, nothing for jogging ...

I placed front speakers in the front cowl panels of our '29 Town Sedan and then placed a "pocket cover / flap" over them so that when I was not using the bluetooth, I could close the flaps and at least create the impression that these were "map pockets", ...

Also a very nice idea!

... and then run the fabric from the side panel over the whole panel to include the speakers.

That was indeed my plan. I don't want to see speakers later.

OffTopic:
I personally do not need heated seats. In winter I don't really want to drive over salted roads. I could also imagine that the heating mats do not last long due to the springs in the upholstery.

Greetings Andy

[Badpuppy]

Originally Posted by bavArian

4 4" speakers may have the same membrane area as 1 8", but they usually don't have the same linear stroke.

(Original post deleted)

You're right. The same area requires the same throw to displace the same volume.

[bavArian]

4 times 4" speakers are 1 8" speaker, that's what we meant.

I believe the main problem still is a good and loud enough front-system. Without that you'll never be able to enjoy good music. So where do you want to place the low/mid- and the high-drivers?

[DRG-ler]

There is still no final decision on the speaker set itself. I'm still completely open, but I want to listen to the advice of the car hifi specialist. Www.carhifi-berlin.de takes care of the production of the kick panel and its installation including the loudspeaker.

The plan was to use a two-way system, the large speaker in the side panel under the tank. The tweeters in the corners above the windscreen.

[Badpuppy]

@DRG-ler Note my edit above. Best to consult the pros.