The Ford Barn

Mike V. Florida · 08-22-2015, 10:30 PM

Quote:

"... I get no (actually extremely little) voltage on the point arm, the points won't spark.."

How little is little? What is the voltage with the points open and with the points closed?

PRG999 · 08-23-2015, 05:28 AM

Just a suggestion, try starting the car with the dash off. The ignition switch wire attachments may be shorting itself out if it's to close to the gas tank wall. Or one of the wire attachments may be shorting itself out on the ignition switch body

coyledad46 · 08-23-2015, 05:05 PM

Hi everyone--
I want to thank all of you for your suggestions. I learned a lot from you. I never could get the new lower plate/wire setup to work. I ended up using my original lower plate and wire. I also followed the suggestion to loosen the ignition cable. It is only hand tight now. With these steps, I was able to get voltage and spark at the points and a good spark from the coil lead. The engine started right up. It runs a little rough and won't settle down to a low idle. I suspect I need to work on the timing now. Also, the ammeter doesn't show a charge, but the needle moves sharply to the left when I turn on the lights, so I think the ammeter is working. Guess I'll have to check the generator as well. Again, thanks for all your help!

Tom Wesenberg · 08-23-2015, 08:09 PM

Before looking for trouble in the generator just jump across the two cutout terminals while the engine is running and see if it will charge. If it does, then the cutout needs to be worked on.

coyledad46 · 08-25-2015, 07:58 PM

Thanks for your comment. I tried to put a jumper wire across the two cutout terminals. I clipped one end to the BAT terminal, but got a spark when I tried to clip on the other end of the jumper wire. I tested the generator output with an analog voltmeter by connecting the pos lead to the pos battery terminal and the neg lead to the BAT terminal on the cutout. It read 6v. I moved the sliding brush quite a ways in the direction of rotation and output increased to 7v, but the ammeter does not move to show a charge. I also noticed that the cutout cover was loose. A little wiggling and it came right off. I noticed that the black insulating material had cracked near the end on right side. The piece didn't fall out, but is loose and moves when I touch it.
First off, am I testing correctly? Is the cutout bad? Is the ammeter bad? Any suggestions will be appreciated. Thanks.

Tom Wesenberg · 08-25-2015, 10:24 PM

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The BAT terminal on the cutout tells me it's a repro cutout. The BAT terminal is always battery voltage, so you need to read the other side to see what the generator is putting out. If the cutout is good and not a diode cutout, then both sides should read the same voltage, or very close to the same, like 7.2 on the generator side and 7.1 on the BAT side.

coyledad46 · 08-26-2015, 06:15 PM

I used the voltmeter to test both sides of the cutout. I got 6v on the Bat side but nothing on the right side -- the post with the nut where the fork-shaped part from the cutout slides under. I tried an old cutout that I had and got the same results -- no voltage on the right side. Does this mean these cutouts are both bad? The ammeter still didn't show a charge, but the needle deflects sharply to about 10v discharge when I turn on the lights. I appreciate your patience and your helpful responses. Thanks.

Mike V. Florida · 08-28-2015, 12:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by coyledad46

I used the voltmeter to test both sides of the cutout. I got 6v on the Bat side but nothing on the right side -- the post with the nut where the fork-shaped part from the cutout slides under. I tried an old cutout that I had and got the same results -- no voltage on the right side. Does this mean these cutouts are both bad? The ammeter still didn't show a charge, but the needle deflects sharply to about 10v discharge when I turn on the lights. I appreciate your patience and your helpful responses. Thanks.

If these are the reading when the engine is running, you have a bad generator. If this is with the engine off, your cutout is not stuck.

The "forked" part is the part that to the output of the generator. There should be voltage there with the engine running.

http://modelabasics.com/Cutout/Image...%20diagram.gif

Tom Wesenberg · 08-28-2015, 12:46 AM

If the field windings aren't getting power, the generator should still put out 1/2 volt from the residual magnetism. If the generator output is an absolute zero, then the output might be getting shorted by too long a screw on the generator side of the cutout, or lack of insulators on the output post, or a broken wire, or a bad armature.

Remove the cutout from the generator and touch the battery cable to the generator output post of one second, then start the engine and see if the generator has any output. If not, then remove it and check inside for the problem.

coyledad46 · 08-29-2015, 01:09 AM

Thanks for the suggestions. I have come to the conclusion that the problem is within the generator. I'm planning to shop for a rebuilt one. Hopefully that will put an end to the problem.
Thanks for all the help, especially with the no-spark problem. The car starts and runs easily now -- couldn't have done it without you.

08-23-2015, 05:28 AM	#22
PRG999 Member Join Date: Feb 2015 Posts: 61	Re: 1930 coupe - no spark at points Just a suggestion, try starting the car with the dash off. The ignition switch wire attachments may be shorting itself out if it's to close to the gas tank wall. Or one of the wire attachments may be shorting itself out on the ignition switch body

08-23-2015, 05:05 PM	#23
coyledad46 Member Join Date: Aug 2015 Location: Pleasanton, Ca Posts: 48	Re: 1930 coupe - no spark at points Hi everyone-- I want to thank all of you for your suggestions. I learned a lot from you. I never could get the new lower plate/wire setup to work. I ended up using my original lower plate and wire. I also followed the suggestion to loosen the ignition cable. It is only hand tight now. With these steps, I was able to get voltage and spark at the points and a good spark from the coil lead. The engine started right up. It runs a little rough and won't settle down to a low idle. I suspect I need to work on the timing now. Also, the ammeter doesn't show a charge, but the needle moves sharply to the left when I turn on the lights, so I think the ammeter is working. Guess I'll have to check the generator as well. Again, thanks for all your help!

08-23-2015, 08:09 PM	#24
Tom Wesenberg Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Mpls, MN Posts: 27,582	Re: 1930 coupe - no spark at points Before looking for trouble in the generator just jump across the two cutout terminals while the engine is running and see if it will charge. If it does, then the cutout needs to be worked on.

08-25-2015, 07:58 PM	#25
coyledad46 Member Join Date: Aug 2015 Location: Pleasanton, Ca Posts: 48	Re: 1930 coupe - no spark at points Thanks for your comment. I tried to put a jumper wire across the two cutout terminals. I clipped one end to the BAT terminal, but got a spark when I tried to clip on the other end of the jumper wire. I tested the generator output with an analog voltmeter by connecting the pos lead to the pos battery terminal and the neg lead to the BAT terminal on the cutout. It read 6v. I moved the sliding brush quite a ways in the direction of rotation and output increased to 7v, but the ammeter does not move to show a charge. I also noticed that the cutout cover was loose. A little wiggling and it came right off. I noticed that the black insulating material had cracked near the end on right side. The piece didn't fall out, but is loose and moves when I touch it. First off, am I testing correctly? Is the cutout bad? Is the ammeter bad? Any suggestions will be appreciated. Thanks.

08-25-2015, 10:24 PM	#26
Tom Wesenberg Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Mpls, MN Posts: 27,582	Re: 1930 coupe - no spark at points Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) The BAT terminal on the cutout tells me it's a repro cutout. The BAT terminal is always battery voltage, so you need to read the other side to see what the generator is putting out. If the cutout is good and not a diode cutout, then both sides should read the same voltage, or very close to the same, like 7.2 on the generator side and 7.1 on the BAT side.

08-26-2015, 06:15 PM	#27
coyledad46 Member Join Date: Aug 2015 Location: Pleasanton, Ca Posts: 48	Re: 1930 coupe - no spark at points I used the voltmeter to test both sides of the cutout. I got 6v on the Bat side but nothing on the right side -- the post with the nut where the fork-shaped part from the cutout slides under. I tried an old cutout that I had and got the same results -- no voltage on the right side. Does this mean these cutouts are both bad? The ammeter still didn't show a charge, but the needle deflects sharply to about 10v discharge when I turn on the lights. I appreciate your patience and your helpful responses. Thanks.

08-28-2015, 12:46 AM	#29
Tom Wesenberg Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Mpls, MN Posts: 27,582	Re: 1930 coupe - no spark at points If the field windings aren't getting power, the generator should still put out 1/2 volt from the residual magnetism. If the generator output is an absolute zero, then the output might be getting shorted by too long a screw on the generator side of the cutout, or lack of insulators on the output post, or a broken wire, or a bad armature. Remove the cutout from the generator and touch the battery cable to the generator output post of one second, then start the engine and see if the generator has any output. If not, then remove it and check inside for the problem.

08-29-2015, 01:09 AM	#30
coyledad46 Member Join Date: Aug 2015 Location: Pleasanton, Ca Posts: 48	Re: 1930 coupe - no spark at points Thanks for the suggestions. I have come to the conclusion that the problem is within the generator. I'm planning to shop for a rebuilt one. Hopefully that will put an end to the problem. Thanks for all the help, especially with the no-spark problem. The car starts and runs easily now -- couldn't have done it without you.