Featherfill high build primer

[Droobie]

I used PPG's epoxy primer/sealer (dont remember the numbers on it sorry) after all the body work was done. Sanded it with 220 then I used Evercoats Featherfill (two good coats) sanded it again with 220. After the Featherfill was sanded and blown off I shot another coat of the epoxy primer sealer then lightly sanded again with 320. Three coats of base and three coats of clear. I am by far no painter but I think it came out great. I am supposed to wet sand and buffer her in three weeks. I had a pro guiding me along the venture.. I have just a few pictures in my album of my Tudor

[wrndln]

Droobie,
Thanks for the response. I think I have come to the conclusion that Feather Fill over PPG DPx0 is OK, but the Evercoat technical person I called said the Feather Fill shouldn't be applied for a least 72 hours after applying the epoxy primer. I guess it is because the epoxy need to release any solvents or chemicals before spraying Feather Fill on it. I think the top coat, PPG Concept in my case, could be applied directly over the Feather Fill or DPx0 applied over the Feather Fill to seal it and then apply the top coat.

[700rpm]

Is there some way to archive this thread? This is great information!

[RTC1930]

Droobie, just curious why 3 weeks before color sanding? I am waiting about a week to do mine and seemed to work well on the fenders. I was under the impression waiting too long might allow it to harden to much and make it difficult to buff, although 3 weeks is well inside the cure time. Maybe I have this backwards.
Bob NJ

[dlshady]

Originally Posted by BRENT in 10-uh-C

Then, to top that, they tell me that within the next 5 years, EPA is mandating that all shops will only be able to spray water-bourne paint.

My friendly local PPG rep dropped by the shop a few weeks ago to invite me to their upcoming water bourne paint system demo, and she said pretty much the same. Its coming, like it or not.


Deron

[Marco Tahtaras]

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Originally Posted by wrndln

Droobie,
Thanks for the response. I think I have come to the conclusion that Feather Fill over PPG DPx0 is OK, but the Evercoat technical person I called said the Feather Fill shouldn't be applied for a least 72 hours after applying the epoxy primer. I guess it is because the epoxy need to release any solvents or chemicals before spraying Feather Fill on it. I think the top coat, PPG Concept in my case, could be applied directly over the Feather Fill or DPx0 applied over the Feather Fill to seal it and then apply the top coat.

Be sure you follow the spec sheet for the DP and keep it within the recoat window or you will have a terribly weak bond. I don't have the current sheet to look it up. It seems to me applying FeatherFill over DP would be similar to applying polyester filler over DP.

[Droobie]

Originally Posted by RTC1930

Droobie, just curious why 3 weeks before color sanding? I am waiting about a week to do mine and seemed to work well on the fenders. I was under the impression waiting too long might allow it to harden to much and make it difficult to buff, although 3 weeks is well inside the cure time. Maybe I have this backwards.
Bob NJ

Bob,

To be completly honest with I have not a clue why I have to wait so long. The friend that guided me through my paint and body experience just told me not to cover the paint for 30 days and that whatever orange peel or small runs would be able to wet sand and buff out. Shawn ( the body shop owner) is full of knowledge and experiance so I just go with the flow and do what he tells me to do when i comes to this stuff. If you have any other questions just ask me and i will ask him and pass on to you.

[Droobie]

Originally Posted by wrndln

Droobie,
Thanks for the response. I think I have come to the conclusion that Feather Fill over PPG DPx0 is OK, but the Evercoat technical person I called said the Feather Fill shouldn't be applied for a least 72 hours after applying the epoxy primer. I guess it is because the epoxy need to release any solvents or chemicals before spraying Feather Fill on it. I think the top coat, PPG Concept in my case, could be applied directly over the Feather Fill or DPx0 applied over the Feather Fill to seal it and then apply the top coat.

wrndln,

I am not sure about the 72 hours of cure time. My paint and body "adviser" if we can call him that just had me wait and hour with the booth on and drafting between spraying then sanding the epoxy primer then applying the featherfill. usually if there is a problem with solvents not being able to escape before the next coat you will see bubbling or cracking after any heat cycle through the booth. I fortunatly didnt have any problems with this. I wish I could just drop by and show all yall how well my tudor came out. LOL. I am proud of it.

[Droobie]

Also some useless but interesting info on featherfill. I just learned today that Porshe and ferrari use a primer very similar to featherfill to perfect their body lines and imperfections. They dont just put and coat or two on...... They cake 6-10 on then sand.... I aint to sure if it is exaggeration on how many coats but i can beleive it. You pay over 100,000 for a car it better be perfect.

[1930ABONE]

Purdy you have a pm.

Is it ok to shoot the featherfill on bare metal and go straight to paint(lacquer)?

[Purdy Swoft]

Originally Posted by 1930ABONE

Purdy you have a pm.

Is it ok to shoot the featherfill on bare metal and go straight to paint(lacquer)?

Yes you can spray Feather Fill over bare metal and top coat right over it with acrylic lacquer and I have done it. Here is what the add says in the Eastwood catalog. Feather Fill G2 is a sprayable polyester filler that is used over STEEL,aluminum,fiberglass,SMC,OEM finishes, body filler, and self etching primers. High solids,high build provides an excellent foundation for any paint system.

Back in 91 I sprayed a 30 AA truck with Feather Fill, right over bare metal and top coated it with Sherwin Williams acrylic lacquer. This truck was used mostly as a mascot that sat in front of my shop. I would drive the truck inside at closeing time but it spent most of ten years outside and the primer and finish held up quiet well.

[Purdy Swoft]

Originally Posted by forever4

It should be applied over an epoxy primer like PPG DPxx.
After sanding it should be sealed with a cut coat of DPxx as well, then top coat.

Applying any 'filler' over bare metal is asking for trouble because they tend to retain moisture and rust and lift from the metal over time. Follow the manufacturers directions, not Eastwoods.

Vince, The manifacturers instructions say nothing about a necessity to spray Featherfill over an epoxy primer. This is good but not manditory. Have you ever used this product? I have, I didn't use it over an epoxy and I had NO problems.

[Purdy Swoft]

Originally Posted by forever4

Yes, I have used it.
Perhaps you should read their instructions.
Eastwood is not the manufacturer, nor are they a reliable source of information for the last 10+ years.
Evercoat is the manufacturer.

From their (Evercoat FeatherFill) website:


http://www.evercoat.com/imgs/pis/Feather%20Fill%20PIS%20032009.pdf

Perhaps the weather in Alabama is an enabler also to putting it on over bare metal with "no problems".
Do whatever works for you.
Maybe buy a lottery ticket also.

Back in 91 many of the body shops in my area were still using lacquer primer surfacer. When the auto manufacturers started using urethane base coat clear coat systems and the major paint manufacturers started offering lifetime warranties to shops that were using their complete line of paint products is when we started hearing about etching type primers. We used metal conditioner to etch the metal on large bare matal areas.

The double A truck was sand blasted. Most if not all primers will adhere well to a sand blasted surface. I wouldn't recommend priming over slick metal with any type primer. I agree that epoxy would be best as a first application over a surface with tooth or ruffed up enough for good adhesion. This would seal the metal. but would add to the cost and the final thickness of the finish.

In years past it was recommended that every trace of paint or primer be removed before body filler was applied. Now it is recommended that body fillers should be applied over primer. It is good insurance and methods and practices change over the years.

Can you prime and paint over bare metal? I say yes if the metal is clean, dry, and properly prepaired, I have done it. In recent years, I no longer like to use the sandblaster and I use 2K etching primer over large bare metal areas. By all means always follow product recommendations.

[1930ABONE]

Thanks for all the great info... very much appreciated!

[Richard/Ca]

WOW! If I ever get around to paint my coupe I will sure have a lot to learn. You guys scare the sh#* out of me with all this strange talk. Every time I mention getting my car painted I am told why don't you it yourself. From what I figure it would cost about the same to buy the equipment as it would to have some else do it.

[Mike V. Florida]

Originally Posted by Richard/Ca

WOW! If I ever get around to paint my coupe I will sure have a lot to learn. You guys scare the sh#* out of me with all this strange talk. Every time I mention getting my car painted I am told why don't you it yourself. From what I figure it would cost about the same to buy the equipment as it would to have some else do it.

Scares me also. i have a painter I can use and I can rent a booth to bring the two together but the time between the vavious coats is what gets me. and what about body work? how do you fit that in and where?

[Cob]

Let's get something clear guys - exchange of information is what this site is about but when guys start bickering back and forth and posting it on who is right and wrong and adressing it to a specific guy then your post will be deleted.

Send your "personal" opinion /disagreement to a specific person in a "private message" and NOT post it for all to see.


This post has some good info.


Thanks,

Cob
Moderator

[dlshady]

Originally Posted by Richard/Ca

WOW! If I ever get around to paint my coupe I will sure have a lot to learn. You guys scare the sh#* out of me with all this strange talk. Every time I mention getting my car painted I am told why don't you it yourself. From what I figure it would cost about the same to buy the equipment as it would to have some else do it.

Paint products and techniques have changed a lot since 'back in the day', and a lot of folks have a tough time getting that concept. Gone are the days of filler on bare metal, then lacquer primer, and then "thirty coats of hand rubbed lacquer" on the top.

The point that many here are trying to convey is that each brand and each product has different recommended procedures, and for the best results you need to follow them. For example, one particular PPG epoxy product that we use has a recoat window of something like 48 hours. If you spray your epoxy primer today and then the part sits in the corner of your garage for a few weeks before you get around to working on it, PPG recommends that it be scuffed and re-coated with the epoxy primer before you coat it with high build primer. Most people would say "Awww, just scuff it with some Scotch-Brite and prime it. It'll be fine..." and it might well be, but since PPG recommends against that, how lucky do you feel. Personally I'm not willing to gamble on such things, not when I already have several thousand dollars invested in materials and especially not when its a customer's car.

The old Sherwin Williams Ultra-Fill II was another product that would yield great results when used properly but required you to follow the directions. Aparently it would "skin over" if it sat more than a couple days and the sand scratches would actualy "heal" themselves leaving little for the next layer to bond to. Sherwin Williams recommended that if it sat more than a few days it would need to be re-sanded(or scuffed with Scotch-Brite) before re-coating.

So the thing to learn from all this is that a quality paint job not only required a good metal man, a good body man and a good paint man, but also requires some thought and planning. It ain't rocket science but it does take some atention to detail. Oh, and the old addage still applies in that you get what you pay for. If you buy your paint from Tractor Supply because its cheaper, well then, you know the rest...


Deron

[Big D]

Originally Posted by Richard/Ca

WOW! If I ever get around to paint my coupe I will sure have a lot to learn. You guys scare the sh#* out of me with all this strange talk. Every time I mention getting my car painted I am told why don't you it yourself. From what I figure it would cost about the same to buy the equipment as it would to have some else do it.

Yes you will learn alot and come to understand that there's much more to it than meets the eye.

For my 2 cents....
1. Sand with 320 or higher before painting, easier to correct the problems below the paint than fill in and try to correct it on top.
2. Extended time to dry and between coats is for paint to dry and harden.
3. Buy a bruffer for final stage (your arms will fall off if you try and do it by hand.)
4. Hard work will pay off. Just using some DP 7, improved overall paint job before doing any repainting.

[Droobie]

Originally Posted by Mike V. Florida

Scares me also. i have a painter I can use and I can rent a booth to bring the two together but the time between the vavious coats is what gets me. and what about body work? how do you fit that in and where?

Mike if you have a place to do it you should just try it. It is scary at first but when it is all said and done you will so much more proud of it if you do it yourself. Also just a heads up for anyone looking to take on this task themselves...... Body work and prep work take up about 90-95% of the time and effort. Spraying is the easy part.