Cleaning the radiator

[Diastole]

Here are the pictures, as requested.

[Diastole]

Katy, there is no Thermostat. Fairly stock, all parts of car.
I have been messaged and included pics so ya'll could help.

[Keith True]

Solutions and flushings are not going to open up blocked tubes.A tube that is blocked up 3 inches from the opening is not going to let solutions down there to open it up.The juice will just find an easier route to the bottom.The old 4 second rule came about when people were happy to drive their A's around at 40 MPH all the time.The radiator guy I used to use showed me that a radiator with 50% of it's tubes blocked will drain in 4 seconds.Somebody published that story over 60 years ago,and because it was in a magazine,it had to be true.Nothing but mechanical poking will unblock the tubes.I have worked on old equipment,and old cars all my working life,and never found any magic uullet that properly cleans a radiator.Over the years I've spent hundreds of hours trying to fix something that I could have fixed if I just took the top off the radiator and run a transmission dipstick down the tubes in the first place.

[Diastole]

Keith True,
Great tips and likely my problem with this original 97 year old radiator. I have always wondered what they rod radiators with. Cool.
How do I know if I have a problem (obviously, if radiator boils over after a leisurely drive, eureka, the radiator is bad)?

But, what if I am on the bubble with say only a couple of tubes bad/clogged or a bunch of fins not contacting the tubes or a separate problem entirely like in the engine?

As I am test driving, what do I look for other than boiling over?
Is there a block temperature, engine head temperature, or radiator water temperature that is too high?

I appreciate the help

[Brentwood Bob]

On your test drive the car will seek its coolant level, try just below the baffle. You are looking for keeping the engine from overheating. Especially under load, think hills.
I traded a Mitchell overdrive for my huckster. One of its problems was overheating. The PO must have mistreated the rebuilt motor, but neglected to mention same to me. Never add water to an overheated block until it cools down!!!!
While discovering a cracked block I did a lot of the same as you have. One thing I did was find a radiator shop in Stockton(20 minutes East) to rod out my radiator. Best money I spent. They are gone now. Find a shop in your neighborhood, and use them, IMHO. Best money you can spend short of a new brass works, or bergs radiator.
There is also a dead spot in the back of the block that likes to block circulation. Only reached when the head is off. There is a modification mentioned in the service bulletins to improve circulation, but I used a drill, probes, vacuum, and other Rube Goldberg techniques to pick at the scale deposits. Then I found the crack in the cylinder wall of number 3. Another motor fixed that.
Bottom line - Start with a good radiator.

[Big hammer]

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Retarded timing and lean mixture can cause your engine to run hot, reading your spark plugs can help determine if your mixture is right and if your adjusting the timing properly. Search google for reading spark plugs, sorry too much typing to post here.

[nkaminar]

The photo that Bruce posted, post #9, looks like someone left a sponge in the radiator. Amazing.

[Gene F]

Al these comments are good. I like the dishwasher soap thing, followed by vinegar, but I thing 72 to 48 hours is good. Especially if you take the car for a spin or two. Remember, any antifreeze that is glycol based will foam if not under pressure. I don't know how far north Danville, CA is. Besides clear water changed another time or two over the first month won't hurt any thing.

[updraught]

A bit of a discussion about using Evapo-rust.

https://forums.aaca.org/topic/333382...-rust-remover/

[katy]

Originally Posted by Brentwood Bob

Never add water to an overheated block until it cools down!!!!

Yes, if the engine is stopped, if it's still running water can be added slowly. Old school trick, (been there, done that).

[Ed in Maine]

I cleaned a radiator by removing the top tank with a propane torch, rodded out with a brass brazing rod with a tip shaped like an "L" that would just fit into the radiator tube. I plugged the bottom connection and filled the radiator with water to just below the top tank. I also used "Gunk" sprayed down into each tube to loosen things. I was amazed by the quantity of solid grease and rust that I pushed out of each tube. There is no way you are going to flush out this stuff. I pushed out all the junk into the bottom tank and hosed it out of the bottom connection. Be gentle when pushing the rod down into the tube, use plenty of Gunk to keep things moving. After I was finished, the radiator was too cold, operating temperature was 155F. Good luck with it, it is not a hard job. Ed

[Gene F]

Some of these techniques in these comments are likely good maintenance every once in a while. How often depends on a few factors. One thing for sure, water pump grease sounds like a major culprit. Glad I have a water pump that has a sealed bearing that I don't add grease to the water side.

I might add, I use water pump lubricant to my water each season, which also keeps the rust down.

[Diastole]

Please help decode data and advise me how to proceed with this radiator!

I performed a run test today after thoroughly cleaning radiator earlier in the week, see my posts #19 and #21 for the steps I took. The BoreScope showed the top and bottom tanks to be clean and the top and bottom of the core to be clean. The Inlet and Outlet of the engine also cleaned up nicely. I am pretty happy with the result of the acids.

I am worried Keith True #23 and Ed in Maine #31 may be correct. Here is the data.

I ran the engine I think I have too high temperatures. But, I need help interpreting the data. And, answering the question of whether I should rod the core or abandon this 97 year old radiator.

The Test:
0-10 mins parked -- idle RPM -- Water temp 150°F
10-20 mins parked -- idle RPM -- Water temp 179°F
20-30 mins parked -- 1,000 RPM -- Water temp 158°F (added box fan in front of grill)
30-40 mins parked -- 1,000 RPM -- Water temp 163°F (added box fan in front of grill)
40-50 mins driving -- 500-1000 RPM -- Water temp 185°F gentle hills in neighborhood
50-60 mins driving -- 500-1000 RPM -- Water temp 192°F gentle hills in neighborhood

See attached picture. The infrared laser thermometer showed the engine getting pretty hot, particularly on the cylinders below the water jacket. Is that normal?

Also, the head above cylinder #1 and #4 got pretty hot, 191°F and 185°F. Plus the water temp topped 192°F.

This is a significant improvement over the radiator last week, that boiled over after 15 mins of driving. So, I helped if some. But, is this sufficient cooling?

The difference in temperature from the inlet of the radiator to the outlet ranged between 13°F and 30°F. I would expect a radiator to lower the temp more than 30°F. Is my concern correct?

When I passed the laser over the radiator fins, there were columns of hotter and colder, as if some of the tubes were clogged or the fins had become dislodge from the tubes (even though I see no damage or loose fins).

Attached is the diagram I used to collect temperatures.

What do all you experts think? Does this radiator adequately lower the temp of the water and protect the engine? It was only 75°F outside today. I was the only passenger in the car. I drove her gently, too.

Is radiator inadequate?
Limp it along and retest in the summer when it is hotter?
Evaporust for several days (I have done one soap and two acid flushes already)?
Recore, rod, or replace?

I plan to call Brassworks or Steve at Berts tomorrow and ask what temperature drop should I expert as water pass thru a radiator.

Thanks in advance!

[nkaminar]

A new radiator is a wonderful thing. If not that, then a rebuilt one is nice. You may have to go to Charlotte to find a radiator shop. I doubt there is one in the Smokys.

[Diastole]

nkaminar,
Thanks and I agree. And, I appreciate your help.
But, do those temperature measurements and only a 30 degree (max) drop in water temp as is passes thru a radiator mean my radiator is in need of being rebuilt or replaced?

And, you are right, closest Radiator Shop is Charlotte, NC or up on the Cumberland Plateau in Central Tenn. I like the idea of a modern car's tranny dipstick as the rod, but my soldering skills suck.

[Big hammer]

I chased my tail around 3 years ago like your doing, 30* drop outlet to inlet temps, used water + water wetter and still high temperatures after an hour or more of driving, never had a boil over. I was shamed into buying a new radiator, when I called Gerry Berg about a new radiator he stated that most people complain that his radiators cool too well ! They do and I ended up adding a thermostat to get the temperature up. Bergs radiator are not in business now, I would call Berts and have your radiator recored, they can make your radiator cool too well. I have my old radiator and one that I bought at a parts swap meet, they could be used as a core if needed !

[Gene F]

"Is radiator inadequate?" When I bought my car it had one of those el-cheapo Sear Robuck radiators in it. Come the heat of summer it would boil over. Cleaning one of those, or recoring it (as it is too small already) is a waste of time. It may be time to call Snyders and get the best one they sell. You might be money, and agrivation ahead int he long-run.

[JOES31]

The water in So Cal has way too many minerals mainly calcium. I guarantee if you did that here, your tubes would have white deposits at the bottom of the top tank and into the
tubes. Lesson learned 40 years ago!

[nkaminar]

Diastole, You are running too hot. The coolant flow is likely too slow. This would allow the coolant to cool in the radiator but the engine would still run too hot. I am guessing but this seems the most logical conclusion. I would take your radiator to a good radiator shop and have them work on it. They may say that it is time for a new one.

One thing that happens to old radiators is that the fins work loose from the tubes so that there is not good heat transfer. This is another possible problem with your radiator. Ask the radiator shop to look at that.

[old31]

Originally Posted by Keith True

Solutions and flushings are not going to open up blocked tubes.A tube that is blocked up 3 inches from the opening is not going to let solutions down there to open it up.The juice will just find an easier route to the bottom.The old 4 second rule came about when people were happy to drive their A's around at 40 MPH all the time.The radiator guy I used to use showed me that a radiator with 50% of it's tubes blocked will drain in 4 seconds.Somebody published that story over 60 years ago,and because it was in a magazine,it had to be true.Nothing but mechanical poking will unblock the tubes.I have worked on old equipment,and old cars all my working life,and never found any magic uullet that properly cleans a radiator.Over the years I've spent hundreds of hours trying to fix something that I could have fixed if I just took the top off the radiator and run a transmission dipstick down the tubes in the first place.

What, what! Keith, are you saying that if its in print that there is a chance that it could possibly be untrue. Amazing.