Trying to figure out the Month of my Model A

[reggiedog]

HI;
Can anyone tell me the month of my Model A as I have a number as A4692727A and in the list it isn't there as now it says that it could be a Canadian Model A which I know that it isn't and the it was made in the Milwaukee Plant.

So can anyone tell me the month of the car as I always thought August but now I think September that it was made in the Milwaukee plant that part of it I do know for sure but the month I do not know for sure

[Bob C]

Engine #4692727 was made on May 27, 1931

[reggiedog]

Thanks That's what I needed to know. Reggiedog

[reggiedog]

Bob,
Wouldn't that make the car a September Car as isn't it four months past the engine being built? as that is what I was told anyway and here I thought the car was a August Car all this time but isn't there away to tell the day month the car was made from the letter and the five numbers on the front sill brace as my brace number is R18468 and I have been told that number will tell you the month day and the year of the car and the Plant that it was made in and the Milwaukee Plants letter code was ( R ) at one time and I have proof of that.

Reggiedog

[reggiedog]

The problem is I don't know the number for the Milwaukee plant besides the ( R ) code that's all I know of that plant and I do know there should be a number for that plant also but all the research that I have done on that Plant I still don't know that number yet.

As I know most of the day to day stuff for that plant but I still can't find that I'm hoping that it's in the tax records for that plant as I'm getting them also and then I should have everything there is to have on the Milwaukee Plant.

Reggiedog

[Jim/GA]

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Why do you need the month? What do you plan to do with it?

Is it an indented firewall car?

If the engine number is late-May, the car itself was probably assembled in Milwaukee in June.

[reggiedog]

Jim,
I have always thought in the restorations book that it said that if the engine was built in say May and then that would make the car being built four months later, as I think that is what I have read in the standards book witch would put my car a September car being built in that month.

And your telling me something even the book don't say as the book says four months and now your telling me June one month for the car to be built so your not going by what the restorations book says so what one is it is it June or September as I have talked to Steve Plucker about this same thing and even he says four months, as I have done research for Steve when he was writing his books and I have both of his books for doing the research for him and that is what got me onto the Milwaukee Plant, and I know the day to day stuff and a lot more on just the Milwaukee Plant and other people that know I'm writing a book on it as my research is so in-depth on that plant as it tells the day to day stuff on that plant and a lot of other things on that plant as this book has taken me years to complete and I know this will be the one and only book I write about the Ford Plants, as this is it as I at first was just doing it for myself as I was just taking notes on it for myself to try and figure out as to what month my Late 31 Deluxe Tudor was made as I'm for sure that it was in the Milwaukee Plant but after all I have been through I still don't know the month my car was made in that Plant and that is what I'm trying to find out before I'm gone.

And now people give me the run around and a lot of them won't answer my questions that I ask so now I have to spend money on it and hire a researcher do it for me and get what I'm looking for yet.

And everyone wants to date there car to the month but me I want to know the month and day that it was built and I'm going to find that stuff out no matter what as I have been told the letter and the five numbers, on the front sill brace tells you the plant the month and the day your car was made and so I'm going to try and find out if that's at all true but with five numbers even I don't get it as of yet.

[Bob Bidonde]

There is no way of determining the vehicles assembly date, but the assembly date range can be estimated. Engine 4692727 was made in the foundry on 5/27/1931. There is a record to prove this fact. Speculation is that this engine would have been put into a care / truck within 90 days of its foundry date, so speculation is that the vehicle in question was assembled in the period June - August of 1931.
Another question is where was the vehicle assembled? Engine 2692727 may been shipped to any one of the Ford branch assembly plants in the USA, or it could have stayed in the Rouge for assembly into a vehicle.
Another issue, is this the vehicles original engine? The only way to find out for sure is to determine if the engine number matches the vehicles frame number. In the case of estimating the vehicles assembly date range, the number stamped into the frame was the original engine number, so it is the most accurate evidence of the vehicles assembly period.

[WTSHNN]

Reggie,

This is the exact quote from the Restoration Guidelines and Judging Standards (pg 1-2) related to the timing between engine stamping and installation in a chassis. (emphasis mine)

The engine number should match the year and approximate month indicated for the vehicle. (Refer to the table of engine numbers). The assembly date for a vehicle may be as long as three months after the date the engine was produced (four months in 1931).

Four months was probably the exception, not the rule, for how long an engine sat before being installed. Ford did not want things sitting around waiting to be used up.
This article explains a lot of that process.
http://www.plucks329s.org/pdf/bos/AN...PRODUCTION.pdf


As for the Assembly Plant Number you're the first person I've come across who says the number stamped is a date code. Can you please provide the source of your information as it would be very informative to everyone else.

The general thinking on the Assembly Plant Number is that it is a sequential number specific to each body style and that the numbers restarted for the 1930 body styles. If you have information to refute that please share for the benefit of everyone!

More about Assembly Plant Numbers available here on page 14
http://www.plucks329s.org/pdf/studie...ND%20CODES.pdf

-Tim

[reggiedog]

WTSHNN;

Are you referring to plant letters as I have about 15 to 20 people that have the letter ( R ) stamped on the front sill brace between the drivers seat and for the Milwaukee Plant that Letter was there before the Richmond Plant even opened on August.1,1931, and so to me that would make that Plant having the code number for the Milwaukee Plant as being the ( R ) letter for that Plant and it's in one of Steve Pluckers books as I have both of them and I personally have seen it in there in his book.

As besides my car there are other that have cars from the 1928/9 that have the same ( R ) stamping between the drivers seat and that normally, has the letter ( R ) and five numbers and that is the problem as I can't figure out the numbers if it was one number less I could probably figure it out.

But with it having five numbers I have no clue as to what it would be as I was told it's suppose to tell the plant number the day and month the car was made, but I can figure out the Plant as that one is easy as I have the ( R ) in my car also, so to me the Milwaukee Plants code was the ( R ) symbol for a time and I know the Richmond's Plant had the ( R ) symbol as well but I think those two plants used the same letter codes for a while as Milwaukee shutdown in 1932 and the Richmond plant shutdown in 1942 just as the Milwaukee Plant was sold to the government the same year and I know what part of the government as well but that will be in my book as I won't release that info at this time.

But that is all I know of it so far as I'm still working on it and to especially find the number code for the Milwaukee Plant as I think that will help a lot in just knowing that part of it, as I think all of those plants had a letter code and a number code and I'm thinking there all stamped on the front sill brace in the car but then again I could be wrong on that and that's part of me getting a few other things for that plant as I think it should be in there but I could be wrong on that as well as it might be a waste of time but if not it was well worth it.

Reggiedog

[LeonardS]

You want these guys to help you figure the dates and codes out, but you won’t share information because you want to sell a book? Isn’t that a little one sided? Many guys on this site have great knowledge and share it freely. Good luck with your quest.

[reggiedog]

Leonard,

I'm not saying that but I have to with hold some of the info for the book as I can't tell you everything or I wouldn't sell the book, at all as all the info would already be out if you already know it that's what I mean.

Now how wise would that be to do it wouldn't be wise at all and I am very thankful for the help on here and that's why I ask questions on here because of the knowledge that the barn has, and that's one of the main reasons why I ask the questions on here as I don't ask questions for the book very often but this is the only pace I could find out what those numbers all meant.

And I found out you can't get what they are for anymore that's the ones on the front brace only and the engine I asked because I couldn't find it in the book and that's about it so I go back to the book from now, on as I only have a little bit more to do on the Milwaukee Plant then I move onto another plant as I got enough on the Detroit Plant already so I'm done with that plant as well.

But I'm NOT writing the book like Steve Plucker did as mine will be more day to day stuff and more in-depth then that as it will have a lot of stuff on all the plants the no one has yet but NOT like what Steve did as he has more precise figures, and mine won't be that way mine will be more the day to day stuff on all the plants and how they operated and how many cars and trucks they made per day or month.

and more everything else and who was what and how they did it that is if I can find that stuff on those plants as it took me almost 20 years to do the Milwaukee plant.

Reggiedog

[gdmn852]

Hello, one thing for sure is the engine number is only pertains to date of engine manufacture, and as mentioned before only a rough estimate of month of car assembly.Also as engine changes seem so common, have seen 1928 engine in a 1931 or vice a versa. My 1931 has a late 1930 engine number on title, I have wondered if that correct or a suspect it may be a “flea market Frankenstein “, does have a indented firewall but frame is a pre April 31 due to body mount bracket.

[ModelA29]

Originally Posted by Bob C

Engine #4692727 passed quality control on May 27, 1931

They were assembled and run in on an electric test stand that spun the motor. They watched the amps the motor drew and if it was between set values it passed and got stamped with a serial number. If it was outside specs it went back for rework without a number.

[Sunny the Model A]

the engine in my truck is a4730543, stamped on june 22 1931, i used http://modelahouse.com/cgi-bin/enumbers/numdate to find that. and since I consider that date to be my trucks birthday, today is my trucks 93rd birthday, here's to another 93!

[rotorwrench]

Ford Motor Co, practice on serial numbers was to start with serial number A1 and continue till the end of model A engine production.They approved numbers by the lot to go to Cork Ireland and Dagenham after they went into production so that they would still be within the Ford USA system. Ford Motor Company of Canada made there own engines and had their own serial numbering system. See this link
https://www.fordgarage.com/pages/ABenginenumbers.htm#C1

Engines were built up in production as either an A or an AA engine assembly depending on the transmission for that assembly. All USA produced engines were built up at the Rouge. After assembly was completed, they went to the test run line where they were connected in to the run stand in a way to check for fluid leaks of any kind. They were serviced with oil and the cooling system was connected to a coolant source as part of the stand. They were test run by spinning them with large industrial electric motors. The test stand operator would monitor the large amp gauge that was in line with the electric drive motor. By the end of the test, there should be no fluid leakage and the amp reading should be within the set limits for the approved testing procedures. If it passed the test then it was likely drained and then number stamped per the production list before going off to either the Rouge assembly line or the shipping department for branch plant supply.

The last Rouge built model A engine was completed and numbered on January 31, 1944.