Can't Get Hub On

[bobbader]

John, don't get me wrong ................. you have achieved what you wanted......which was to be able to get the drum over the brake shoes. This doesn't mean you have achieved good brakes at this wheel. Really Good mechanical brakes can only be achieved when each and every part in the system has precision close to when the car was new. You think you have arced the shoes with your belt sander, but, unless you made a fixture to hold the shoe at a specific arc to the belt sander, and to the measured inside diameter of each drum, what you have done, at best, is fit the shoes by eye and feel to this particular drum. If you do this at each wheel, you have approximated 4 times. Each of those "approximations" can lessen the total brake efficiency that much more. And, if you read Les Andrews book carefully, he advocates grinding the adjusting shafts only to equalize the length of each pair per shoe ...... not to "shorten" them so that the drum fits. (BTW, Snyder's service linings are not too thick. I've used them for years.)

[[email protected]]

bobbader, if shoes weren't too thick then why couldn't I get the drum on?

[bobbader]

John, it’s sometimes hard to figure out some of your problems because you move, rather quickly, from one predicament to the next. You’re new at this and you have a vehicle which has been laying around for many, many years, if I remember correctly.

I’ve just reread this entire thread. Your original posting doesn’t give much info as to what you had done before the problem on one rear brake assembly cropped up. Did the other three go back together with no problem, or was this the first one you tried to assemble? Were the linings in the original 2 pictures new? (It doesn’t look like it) if they were not new, why did everything fit before whatever work you did ……. roller tracks. floaters, etc. If the linings in those pictures was new, were they the “Snyder’s linings” you’re referring to?

As per your premise that everything fit “on the floor” (or off the car), this points to everyone talking about things not being centered. When you try it off the car, the backing plate/shoe assembly can “float” into fitting together, because the drum measures 11” and the shoe distance is less. However, when you mount all back on the car, the axle centers the backing plate and the drum in a concentric plane. If the shoes don’t align in that same plane or something in the assembly is taking them out of that plane, the drum will not go on. I’m fairly sure Les Andrews book explains shoe centering. Don’t ask 15 different people to chime in on Fordbarn. Read, reread that text and see if you can understand how it works. See if slowing down your process can help you proceed with your process.

[updraught]

Originally Posted by [email protected]

bobbader, if shoes weren't too thick then why couldn't I get the drum on?

The Flathead Ted video I posted showed how to check with a ruler from the bearing surface if the shoes are centred.

[[email protected]]

bobbadder, I really appreciate your help. To the best of my ability, I have tried all the advice given on centering the shoes. Some say bending the tracks is not good and others say the solution is use SHOE CENTERING PINS TEDS Part # A-2045-FHT. By belt sanding the left shoes I got the left side to fit properly. I sanded too much on the right shoes and ruined them. I ended up putting on the original shoes on the right side (the problem was never with the right side as the originals always fit just fine) and the right now works fine. When I get this driving and the brakes don't work well, I'll get the entire brake setup from Randy Gross. Answering your questions: “Did the other three go back together with no problem, or was this the first one you tried to assemble?” On all four wheels I was installing Ted’s Brake Floater Kit (A-2051-FHT. Everything worked fine on the front and the right rear, The left rear is where the problem was. After much figuring we came to the conclusion that the brake shoes were the problem so I bought 4 new shoes. On the left side I needed to use the roller sander but they finally fit. On the right side I also needed to use the roller sander but I sanded too much and ruined so I went back to the original pads with the Floater Kit and they now work. BTW I installed new roller tracks on all 4 wheels. “Were the linings in the original 2 pictures new?” Yes, they were the originals. “If they were not new, why did everything fit before whatever work you did ……. roller tracks. floaters, etc.” That is the 64-thousand-dollar question. “If the linings in those pictures were new, were they the “Snyder’s linings” you’re referring to?” No, I got that Snyder linings after we figured the problem was the left shoes were bad. (Why the worked originally, I have no idea, they didn’t even work when I removed the floaters)
The reason I messed with front brakes is because the roller track wasn’t flat enough so I replaced the roller track and also installed the floaters. I was going to do nothing to the rears but when I tried to adjust them the adjusting screw was so gummed up it wouldn’t turn so I figured I would do the same as I did to the front.

[bobbader]

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

Hi John. Here’s the deal. I can’t tell you why the one brake drum was so hard to make work. And, you had plenty of good folks who contributed possible scenarios that might have caused the problem. But, the brakes “worked” (or at least fit) when you took it apart. You changed the roller tracks. This should not have changed much in how things fit or not. You ground the adjusting shafts. You heard my opinion on that. Still shouldn’t have had much affect. Flathead Ted’s Floaters????? Hmm, here’s something that could change things. But, you state that it didn’t work even after you removed the floaters. It worked before but doesn’t work now, even after you undid the one thing that might have made the most change. Sounds like something else in the way you took things apart and put things back together is (or was askew). I get it. It’s frustrating, but your remedy was to change still more “stuff”. Sand the linings, change to new shoes, ruin new shoes.

I really would like to help more. It feels like you’re falling all over yourself by trying to do a complete rebuild of a car you’ve never had on the road and actually only had it running a very short time. Here’s something to think about. I’ve had a Model A parts and repair business for 47 years. I’ve probably rebuilt more brake systems than any other component and I’ve been “turning wrenches” since I was 13. I say this not to congratulate myself. The moral of this story is that it still takes me the better part of 30 to 40 hours to rebuild a Model A brake system and I know and understand each and every part of the system and how each functions.

My best advice ……….. put down the belt sander, big hammer, super long prybar, or whatever other tool might solve a problem. Instead pick up and read every Model A book you can find until you can digest the next component you take on. Forget the “upgrades” like the floaters until you fully understand how a certain component functioned from the factory and for the next 90+ years.

[[email protected]]

Again bobbader, thanks a lot for your great advise. It is obvious you have read mine and other's posts and made great comments. When I post something, I try to do the best job I can and it's obvious that you and others, like nkamina, do the same. I'm going to do what I said on my post 65 and hope for the best.

[Sunny the Model A]

Here is the best solution for you, this video from the Dallas Model A club back in the 80's is the best way to make the A stop perfectly every time. my advice is to put the A back to stock and listen to what is in the video. https://youtu.be/3GFMJ7iiWiI?si=AVJwgw9JgXoZpKmI