Can't Get Hub On

[nkaminar]

John, The roller tracks were very accurately located at the Ford plant and all the other parts were held to close tolerances. The brakes worked very well as the cars rolled off the factory floor.

Over time the roller tracks get worn. Instead of being straight across they have valleys worn into them. The roller pins get worn too. Even new roller tracks that are riveted into place can be too high or too low, or in the rear too forward or too aft. (Ford used a gauge to set the roller tracks.) My solution is to weld up the worn tracks and file or grind them flat. Then test the concentricity of the shoes and file or grind more to get the height correct.

The red book has some drawings that illustrate this, page 1-37.

I thought that you said that you have installed the Flat Head Ted kit. That kit will allow the shoes in the front to be centered when the kit is installed. In the back you still need to get the roller tracks correct or buy the more expensive kit with the pins that are adjustable by turning them to different surfaces.

If you do not have the FHT kit then you will have to have the adjustment shafts the same length on each wheel. Use a caliper to measure the lengths. The red book shows a gauge that can be used to get the lengths the same, page 1-37.

You shoes will wear in withing the first 200 or 300 miles. After that the will work much better and you will be able to adjust them to your liking. Just make sure they do not get too hot while wearing in, less than 250F.

[Y-Blockhead]

Bratton's and MAC's used to sell a tool for checking brake centering. I don't know who has it these days...

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nkaminar (Sure appreciate all your expert help) The roller tracks are new. How would I determine if my roller tracks are "too high or too low"? How would I "test the concentricity of the shoes"? I think I may need to use the the fixture shown on pg 1-37 to shorten the shafts. I do have the Flathead Ted Kit (Snyder A-2051-FHT). I also may go back to the original BRAKE ADJUSTING WEDGE (Snyders A-2041) because it allows the adjusting shaft to not extend out so far.

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The Shoes Don't fit perfectly. The ends of the shoes are flush and in the center there is a .020 gap where the feeler gauge is. Is this a problem and, if so, how do I fix it? Do you think this is part of my problem?

[Bob C]

Here are three tools I have for centering brake shoes.
Left is Barrett B-170, center is a Barrett B-160, and right is an Ammco 1750.

[nkaminar]

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I have used a Dremal sanding drum to remove high spots on the shoes. Others have used electric belt sanders. Others have used the self adhesive 80 grit sanding paper and attached this to the drum and then rotated the drum on the shoes. Others just let the shoes wear into the drums through use.

The best way is to send the shoes and drums to Randy Gross.

[bobbader]

Personally, I would advise against anyone grinding the adjusting shafts in an effort to make the shoes fit “better”. This is a poor remedy for a scenario where using factory made parts need to be modified to fit. The adjusting shafts were made to fit along with the other shoe hardware on also factory designed backing plate hardware.

Fitment issues like you are having now are brought up at least once a month on this forum. Most times, the solution involves new Ebrake linings that are too thick, Ebrake carriers that are twisted from abuse, service brake linings that need to be “arced” to fit new drums, improper installation of roller pins, or “totally shot” roller tracks. Your roller tracks are new. You’ve already shortened the adjusting shafts. Thee has been little return commentary about drum fit with the brakes removed and you admittedly have service brake shoes that need to be “arced”. Check around in your area for an automotive machine shop that can provide the service to start eliminating likely causes of your problem.

[Y-Blockhead]

Originally Posted by Y-Blockhead

Bratton's and MAC's used to sell a tool for checking brake centering. I don't know who has it these days...

Found the tool I was referring to at Mike's.

https://www.mikes-afordable.com/product/T2021T.html

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You people keep talking about "centering". What can I do to Center the shoes? I find no adjustments.

[nkaminar]

You have to grind away or weld onto the roller tracks. After welding you have to grind the roller tracks to make them level.

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I took about .030 off the shoes with my belt sander and now things work fine. I didn't expect to need to do grinding or sanding on either the shoes or the adjusting shaft to get new shoes to work. I think shortening the shaft is something people do based on the fixture that the red book shows on pg 1-37. I wish I would have known this in the beginning, it just didn't seem like (if everything is either new or in order) machining things should be needed to get things to work.

[bobbader]

With all due respect to you, John, and those who have gone before you and will come after you ………… please tell me if any of you have read in any available literature on Model A Fords ……. especially such verified sources as the Ford Service Bulletins, Victoria Page books on Model A Fords, Murray Faunstock books on Model A Fords, or Les Andrew’s’ Maroon repair manual …….. In any of those sources, have you seen words that suggest using a belt sander to fit the linings or taking a grinder to the adjusting shafts. I’m guessing most of you would say no, there are no such words. These may seem legitimate means to achieve a “fix” to a problem. I get that, but you have also lessened the possibility you can get your brakes to perform optimally.

[lrf]

Is there a left and right parking brake band? Can you flip and install a parking brake band incorrectly? Just a thought.

[Bob C]

Looking at the picture in post 44 it is obvious that the shoes were not arced to fit the diameter of the drums.

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So bobbadder, that's exactly my point, I shouldn't need to do anything to get them to fit. So what should I have done to avoid sanding or grinding? So, as you said in post 47, "service brake linings that need to be “arced” to fit new drums" This is basically what I ended up doing but I took more off the service brake linings beyond just arcing them. Maybe Snyders brake linings are too thick?

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Bob C. when I belt sanded them I also "arched" them to fit the drums perfecrly.

[Tacoma Bob]

MMMm concerning grinding of the adjusting shafts. This is explained in L. Andrew's red book including a diagram on how to build a fixture jig.

[nkaminar]

John, Congratulations on solving your problem. It may be that the linings are too think with the thought that they would be arced to fit the drums and/or the drums are turned to true them. That is what Andy Gross does. And it does it well.

I have to ask if you got your drums turned after they were riveted to the hubs.

[Y-Blockhead]

Originally Posted by nkaminar

John, Congratulations on solving your problem. It may be that the linings are too think with the thought that they would be arced to fit the drums and/or the drums are turned to true them. That is what Andy Gross does. And it does it well.

I have to ask if you got your drums turned after they were riveted to the hubs.

Randy Gross

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nkaminar: no I did not turn the drums. They are steel