Ford authorized sale of "imperfect" model a engines.

[ursus]

Originally Posted by Kevin in NJ

Ford was not big on wasting stuff.

It is likely the stuff that failed production specs got used someplace.

I would not be surprised if items that failed production specs got put out for replacement parts. It was ok for a mechanic to spend time fitting, but not the production worker.

My brother believes some of the stuff that people bought NOS laying the shelf for decades may have been on the shelf because it never fit.

I have thought this as well. Some NOS parts that I have bought off of E-Bay were dimensionally defective in some way. I recall a large E-Bay auction of parts salvaged from an old Ford dealership in which almost every box or tag was marked "NG" in grease pencil. I suspected that the letters meant "No Good".

[Kevin in NJ]

Originally Posted by ursus

I have thought this as well. Some NOS parts that I have bought off of E-Bay were dimensionally defective in some way. I recall a large E-Bay auction of parts salvaged from an old Ford dealership in which almost every box or tag was marked "NG" in grease pencil. I suspected that the letters meant "No Good".

It appears that parts made later, after A production, were not built as well. They were likely contracted out. I was told that some known 40's production flywheels were not balanced very well right from the box.

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Originally Posted by ursus

I have thought this as well. Some NOS parts that I have bought off of E-Bay were dimensionally defective in some way. I recall a large E-Bay auction of parts salvaged from an old Ford dealership in which almost every box or tag was marked "NG" in grease pencil. I suspected that the letters meant "No Good".

More to the point that much of the NOS items you find is actually items manufactured by other companies and sold thru markets such as Western Auto, Sears Roebuck, Montgomery Wards, etc. This includes fenders, running boards, radiator, cylinder heads and all kinds of items.

[Y-Blockhead]

Originally Posted by ursus

I have thought this as well. Some NOS parts that I have bought off of E-Bay were dimensionally defective in some way. I recall a large E-Bay auction of parts salvaged from an old Ford dealership in which almost every box or tag was marked "NG" in grease pencil. I suspected that the letters meant "No Good".

Originally Posted by BRENT in 10-uh-C

More to the point that much of the NOS items you find is actually items manufactured by other companies and sold thru markets such as Western Auto, Sears Roebuck, Montgomery Wards, etc. This includes fenders, running boards, radiator, cylinder heads and all kinds of items.

Hey!! Something like the Repop parts that are available today...

[ursus]

Originally Posted by BRENT in 10-uh-C

More to the point that much of the NOS items you find is actually items manufactured by other companies and sold thru markets such as Western Auto, Sears Roebuck, Montgomery Wards, etc. This includes fenders, running boards, radiator, cylinder heads and all kinds of items.

I was using NOS to denote parts that were sourced directly from Ford Motor Co. For all the other non-Ford aftermarket stuff produced in North America I prefer to use NORS. A lot of the NORS stuff is actually of high quality as it was produced back when we had a quality manufacturing base.

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

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Originally Posted by ursus

I was using NOS to denote parts that were sourced directly from Ford Motor Co. For all the other non-Ford aftermarket stuff produced in North America I prefer to use NORS. A lot of the NORS stuff is actually of high quality as it was produced back when we had a quality manufacturing base.

Yes, but there is more to that story. Back in the day, Ford was not the only company stamping fenders. For example, do a search on Fostoria Steel Fender or Detroit Body Die. Both these companies along with several others made fenders for Model-As that are/were very close to an OEM Ford fender. There have been many of these fenders that have been sold as NOS but in reality were aftermarket. There are many other items such as Ammeters, Ign. Points, Coils, Water Pumps, etc. that were all passed off as NOS because they were so close to design and aesthetics. This has always been a problem for restorers, ...and was such a problem for Ford even during the period when Model-As were being built that Ford described such parts as 'gyp' parts and warned his Agencies to not use these parts.

Now as to NORS, I think you will find that is a term that surfaced during the 1960s to label items that were similar in design & function, but not close enough to look original. Spring Shackles, Suspension parts, Radiators, engine parts, starter switches, wiring harnesses, etc., etc. all fell into this category. More to the point where these were cheaper items that JC Whitney, Sears, Warshawskys (sp) and other auto parts stores sold during the after war periods. I guess I would say that a few were of decent quality but most, -while decent by today's standards were still not as good as what Ford manufactured. Use the Bulldog brand of suspension parts. They made spindle bolts (King Pins) and shackles for the Model-A which are very good however they were not manufactured like the original items with regard to materials and forging. Go look at an old Wirey Joe harness, --close but no cigar.

And, to confuse the entire rating system, when is old brand-new reproduction parts made in the 60s different from NORS? Many of those items made by Rick's of Shawnee Mission and Tommy Trailor's Specialized Auto have been laying around on shelves for the last 40-50 years and are often mistaken as NORS parts!!

.

[Phil Brown]

Originally Posted by BRENT in 10-uh-C

Yes, but there is more to that story. Back in the day, Ford was not the only company stamping fenders. For example, do a search on Fostoria Steel Fender or Detroit Body Die. Both these companies along with several others made fenders for Model-As that are/were very close to an OEM Ford fender. There have been many of these fenders that have been sold as NOS but in reality were aftermarket. There are many other items such as Ammeters, Ign. Points, Coils, Water Pumps, etc. that were all passed off as NOS because they were so close to design and aesthetics. This has always been a problem for restorers, ...and was such a problem for Ford even during the period when Model-As were being built that Ford described such parts as 'gyp' parts and warned his Agencies to not use these parts.

Now as to NORS, I think you will find that is a term that surfaced during the 1960s to label items that were similar in design & function, but not close enough to look original. Spring Shackles, Suspension parts, Radiators, engine parts, starter switches, wiring harnesses, etc., etc. all fell into this category. More to the point where these were cheaper items that JC Whitney, Sears, Warshawskys (sp) and other auto parts stores sold during the after war periods. I guess I would say that a few were of decent quality but most, -while decent by today's standards were still not as good as what Ford manufactured. Use the Bulldog brand of suspension parts. They made spindle bolts (King Pins) and shackles for the Model-A which are very good however they were not manufactured like the original items with regard to materials and forging. Go look at an old Wirey Joe harness, --close but no cigar.

And, to confuse the entire rating system, when is old brand-new reproduction parts made in the 60s different from NORS? Many of those items made by Rick's of Shawnee Mission and Tommy Trailor's Specialized Auto have been laying around on shelves for the last 40-50 years and are often mistaken as NORS parts!!

.

Anyone know what "gyp" stands for ?

[Henry's Lady's Man]

Originally Posted by Phil Brown

Anyone know what "gyp" stands for ?

Without hurting any feelings of minorities, It is a reference to Gypsies being non citizens in many countries of Europe (origins from Romania) and disdained by xenophobes and ethnic purists and nationalists.
Some were known to cut the purity of salt with gypsum, of lesser value in days of yore.
Good synonyms would be counterfeit, knock-off, look-a-like, fake etc.
so getting gypped meant paying for the real deal and getting a knock-off.

[Phil Brown]

Originally Posted by Henry's Lady's Man

Without hurting any feelings of minorities, It is a reference to Gypsies being non citizens in many countries of Europe (origins from Romania) and disdained by xenophobes and ethnic purists and nationalists.
Some were known to cut the purity of salt with gypsum, of lesser value in days of yore.
Good synonyms would be counterfeit, knock-off, look-a-like, fake etc.
so getting gypped meant paying for the real deal and getting a knock-off.

Interesting history, I knew getting gypped was getting ripped off or not getting full value, thought that it might be an acronym for something. Now I know where it came from Thanks

[Tom Wesenberg]

Originally Posted by Phil Brown

Anyone know what "gyp" stands for ?

Gypsy

[Henry's Lady's Man]

Originally Posted by Tom Wesenberg

Gypsy

Thanx Tom... That's why you got 25K

[BILL WILLIAMSON]

Originally Posted by Tom Wesenberg

Gypsy

Tom,
Be CAREFUL, some of us "might" be part Gypsy!
About 12 years ago, I found out that I am 1/8 PAWNEE INDIAN
NOW, when I watch Old Western Movies, I'm CONFUSED???
Bill Heinz