32 model B - Will not start

[greyhound]

I am looking for some advice. I have a 32 model b and it does not seem to draw fuel/air mixture from the carb through the intake. I removed the intake and it isn't blocked and there aren't any obvious areas where the may be a leak. Carb and fuel pump have been rebuilt, and there is good spark at all 4 plugs. Any ideas? Many thanks in advance.

[1931 flamingo]

Are your valves opening and closing (timing gear brkn)?? Is this something new that's occurred?? Has the engine run in the past?? Is the fuel pump pumping?? Is there gas in the carb??
paul in CT

[greyhound]

Fuel pump is pumping and fuel is in the carb. Car sat for 15 years and my dad got it started about 2 years ago, but had the same issue where it would just not start. Once it started, it ran fine and would restart when warm. When cold, it would not restart. Is there an easy way to check to see if the valves are opening?

[Don Cape Cod]

I have had what I believe is called a "Grosse" carb fuel valve stick! Stick hard. This is the two ball bearing type. Apparently the new fuel is either etching the surface of the top small ball or is creating some sticky situation.

When I recently got this H & H rebuilt engine running, there was near two gallons of fuel in the oil pan. The fuel pump had not been rebuilt by H & H. It had been done some time ago when the body was being restored. I could not tell how old the rebuild kit was, but it was leaking like a sieve. The new gas is really doing a job. You can see material missing and some of the inner fabric showing.

I would try to locate a valve that is all metal, even a cleaned up original one.
Don

[Don Cape Cod]

PS That was the second "Grosse" type valve to stick, I had replaced it last fall with a new one

[Don Cape Cod]

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PS #2, if there are any sections of rubber hose in your fuel system, the new gas may be disolving it and crudding up the carb or fuel valve.

[DavidG]

Greyhound,

Look at the thread "A Little Help, Please" currently on today's General Discussion page along with your thread. It contains a litany of advice pertaining to a Model B that ran then died and won't restart.

In your case, it sounds like the first step might be to have your ignition coil and condensor tested to see if they are up to snuff. How long ago was the initial timing checked? To check for the possibility of a broken timing gear, remove the top cap of the distributor and see if the rotor rotates when you engage the starter. If it rotates, the timing gear should be okay, which brings you back to the question of the initial timing.

[jim1932]

what we did to issolate the issue between the fuel pump and the carb was hook up a spare lawn mower tank directly to the carb. A helper simply holds the tank high enough to gravity feed the tank. If it runs this way, it is definately the pump... I am learning that it doesn't take much in lost pressure to keep it fom running. Main culprit for me has been the flexible fule line and the fittings from the fuel pump to the carb. Also double check the cork gasket in the top of the fuel pump. I had one shrink up in a couple of months of non use.

[PeteVS]

Originally Posted by greyhound

I have a 32 model b and it does not seem to draw fuel/air mixture from the carb through the intake.....

Have you tried pulling all of the plugs out and holding a thumb over each of the plug holes while someone cranks the engine? It should be doing the suction thing on intake stroke, and pressure on compression stroke. That should tell you if the valves are opening and closing. Also, can you get into the cylinder with a small light and dental mirror? (Some time ago, I found a small dental mirror with a little LED light built into it. Neat!) That should be able to tell you if the valves are opening and closing. Just don't bust your mirror when a piston comes up!

[greyhound]

I pulled the updraft carb and intake and when cranking, there seems to be very little vacuum/suction going into the engine. I'm not sure how much vacuum would be normal though. I'll get a small inspection mirror today and check the valves to try to make sure they are opening/closing properly. Could this also be excessive leakage past the piston rings? After trying to start, the cylinders have no smell of fuel at all. Will keep working on it and hoping it's not a problem that will need a rebuild. The car sat in a barn for 15 years without running and my grandfather had it prior to that as a parts car for another show car he had....I don't know if he had it running or just used it for parts, and he had it since the70's when he bought it. It's a beautiful car so I'd love to get it running again. Thanks in advance.

[jim1932]

Mine was definately the thickness.....or i should say thinness of the gaskets. Try to get a gravity tank directly to the carb. If this starts. The issueto is fuelthe pumpline or fuel line.

[DICK SPADARO]

This is the quick back yard mechanic check. Turn the ignition switch off, remove the air cleaner, place the palm of you hand over the carb inlet and have some one pull the starter control to roll the engine over a couple revolutions. If you have a sufficient vacuum you should feel suction on the palm of your hand. If you do not have vacuum you have an air leak due to a bad gasket or stuck valve.

If you have vacuum the next step is to attempt to start the engine using spray starting fluid. Open the choke and the throttle and give a long blast of starting fluid in the carb, close the choke off and the throttle, turn the switch to On and attempt to start the engine. The engine should start and attempt to run or pop and stall out. This would indicate a fuel problem with the carb which may require the carb to be removed and cleaned epeciallly if it has been setting for a period of time. Remember any time you have had an engine setting for a period of time longer than 1 year it is usually necessary to replace the fuel pump diaphram and clean the carb internally. Since you have spark you need to check for fuel and this is the easiest way.

[Charles Seims]

I have a different suggestion. Pop the distributor cap and inspect the cam that opens the points. There should be a distinct "edge" on each of the 4 lobes. If the lobes are all smooth, it means the edge has worn off after millions of times opening the points. If the lobes are worn down, the points won't open all the way and hard starting is the result--particularly after driving the car and the engine has warmed up. A new cam is same as Model A (I think) and is a simple bolt-on. It should set you back $12-15 from a Model A parts supplier. Try to get one made in the good old USA. Replacing mine did wonders for the performance of my Model A.

Chas Seims

[DavidG]

A and B distributor cams are not the same as shown in the illustration below from the July, 1932 Service Bulletin. The article continues briefly on the next page with the warning: "The A-12210 distributor cam should never be used with the new distributor.".

[1931 flamingo]

DavidG: I believe the dist cams sold by the A vendors HAVE the proper B profile. Something to do with the dwell helping the stock A ign sys.
Paul in CT

[DavidG]

1931 flamingo,

Thanks; that's good to know as I have a spare B distributor with an A cam in it, which I'd like to change should I put it to use.