'39 - '41 Brakes - OK to be backwards on the Hub?

[sandbug]

Does it matter if the brake cylinder drums are backwards, and does it matter which way the wheel cylinder goes? Does it matter where as there is a big side and a small side.

This is the front passenger side. Thanks 😊

Front Pasenger.jpg

[petehoovie]

Originally Posted by sandbug

Does it matter if the brake cylinder drums are backwards, and does it matter which way the wheel cylinder goes? Does it matter where as there is a big side and a small side.

This is the front passenger side. Thanks 😊

[Kube]

I'm certain that it matters.
Ask yourself this: "Why would Ford make stepped cylinders specific to the left or right side if it didn't matter"?
Also, if you swap them to the "wrong" side, the hose / line connections will be incorrect.

Me? Do it once, do it correct.

[Mart]

Just remember "Big Big"
Big end of the cylinder and longer brake shoe lining to the front.
Your linings both appear to be short, with one at one end of the shoe and the other at the other end.
Something is not right there.
Mart.

[tubman]

I have always been a stickler for doing things the right way. That being said, I'll bet thousands of guys have done it wrong over the last 85 years and were never aware of it.

Is this a trick question? Since you are in California, I will assume "passenger side" means the right side. The brakes shoes look weird to me. Both linings appear to be about the same length, but are positioned strangely.

[hueyhoolihan]

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pretty much agree with previous responses...

but if a mix'n'match approach were to be taken on the front wheel cylinders it could lead to asymmetrical braking performance, resulting in anything from a mild annoyance to tragedy.

slightly related...i know for a fact that the four rear brake SHOES on my '41 are identical and that originally the forward most shoes may have had either more or less (can't remember which) ablative material (lengthwise) on them than the rearward shoes. apparently, some aftermarket suppliers have now dispensed with the notion that warranted the original distinction and so make only one type of shoe and sell a buyer four identical shoes.

[fordyford]

I am surprised that no one mentioned your picture is not 1939/41. You have later style 1942/48. The rear shoe will look better once the spring is connected.

[danliveshere]

If this is the right hand side front, then the wheel cylinder is correct but the shoes are back to front. The shoe with the longer lining will face forward. Dan.

[tubman]

Originally Posted by danliveshere

If this is the right hand side front, then the wheel cylinder is correct but the shoes are back to front. The shoe with the longer lining will face forward. Dan.

Take a closer look at the linings on the shoes. Does that look normal to you? The linings look essentially the same length, but are positioned oddly. It's been a while, but they don't look like any linings I've ever seen.

[glennpm]

Originally Posted by Mart

Just remember "Big Big"
Big end of the cylinder and longer brake shoe lining to the front.
Your linings both appear to be short, with one at one end of the shoe and the other at the other end.
Something is not right there.
Mart.

From Vanpelt's site and the HAMB.

[Terry,OH]

The early grease catching shield is not proper for the 39-41 brakes. The disconnected spring shown in your photo will touch the shield. You need the shield (#2240) as shown in post 10 above with the flat clearance area for the brake shoe return spring.

[19Fordy]

Sandbug, Yes, it matters because 39-41 brakes are Lockheed brakes not Bendix. Do a search on Fordbarn and you will find tons of info. regarding the proper installation of the brakes you have.

[pistonbroke]

You may have both short linings on one side and both long on the other side. I've seen it before. And yes it matters, a lot in a panic stop! This is why we hear folks say those old brakes were never any good . Because someone put them togather wrong or with poor replacement parts from a forien country. That being said ,we're glad you asked and hope our advice helped. Tim

[rotorwrench]

Most brake designs have a primary and secondary shoe arrangement. This gives the best mechanical advantage for peak efficiency and longevity.

[v8fordman]

It looks to me as if two pieces of short linings have been bonded to the shoes. A closer look tells me that the lining on the left shoe has been improperly oriented on the shoe (and can’t be fixed without removing it and a new piece bonded). Regardless where you place the shoe pictured on the left, it will be wrong. Both the diagram and the picture in post 10 show the correct lining orientation on the shoe.

[Flathead Fever]

Originally Posted by pistonbroke

You may have both short linings on one side and both long on the other side. I've seen it before. And yes it matters, a lot in a panic stop! This is why we hear folks say those old brakes were never any good . Because someone put them togather wrong or with poor replacement parts from a forien country. That being said ,we're glad you asked and hope our advice helped. Tim

I'm thinking the same thing, that both short shoes are on this side, you have to understand how the brakes work and then you will know how the long and shorts shoes go on the backing plates. They are opposite on early Ford brakes. So many people are used to installing modern brakes they automatically put the long shoe in the rear and the short up front. It's completely opposite on early Ford brakes. I would say that half of the early Ford brakes I have taken apart were put on wrong.

Let's start with the modern drum system. The shoes are "not" connected at the bottom, and they just float there. You can grab them at the bottom and pushed them from side to side. When the wheel cylinder pushes the upper shoes out the rotating force of the drum wants to shove the lower part of the front shoe back in. The brake designers figured out this could be use by letting the lower parts of the front brakes push on the adjusting linkage and shove the bottom of front shoes into rear shoes. That's why modern drum breaks the rear shoe is longer and thicker because it does more of the braking.

Now let's look at the Early Ford brakes. They are anchored at the bottom; there is no way for them to slide and provide additional braking to the rear shoes. My understanding it was a patent on that design that prevented Ford from using it. So, the bottoms were anchored and only the top of the shoes did the work. That means since the "front" shoe did the majority of the breaking it was made longer, and the "rear" shoe was cut shorter so it would wear out at the same time. A larger wheel cylinder piston provides more breaking force. You only have so much master cylinder size to play with. So, Ford made the end of the wheel cylinder that goes toward the primary shoes larger and the rear side of the cylinder a little smaller. Once you understand how early Ford brakes work you will understand which shoes go where and why.

[aussie merc]

an often overlook fact is that the materials on the long and short shoes where different and makes a big difference on stopping power mine would stop but not great relined with woven ad moulded combination stopes excellent common enough error if your brake shop doesn't know

[petehoovie]

Originally Posted by aussie merc

an often overlook fact is that the materials on the long and short shoes where different and makes a big difference on stopping power mine would stop but not great relined with woven ad moulded combination stopes excellent common enough error if your brake shop doesn't know

[19Fordy]

aussie merc: Thanks for that brake shoe lining info. I always thought they were all the same. I believe I read many years ago that stock 1940 FORD factory brake linings were .20 in. thick. Is that true?

[aussie merc]

yeh its true its only 3/16 approx they dont wear that quick and dont need boosters if their set up correctly, drums will take a fairly heavy o/size cut without much drama as the actual drum pressure isnt that high its when you add boosters and multiply the drum pressure by anything up to a factor of 4 times stock it can lead to dramas They are not 4wheel discs and wont stop like them but are more than adequate for the job .