Gasket making inquiry...

[hardtimes]

Any on you guys ever make your own HEAD gaskets ?
Do you have any advice where to obtain gasket material, etc ?

[rotorwrench]

It's too easy to buy a copper or composition head gasket. Copper is a PITA to cut and shape. Best gaskets make some good stuff and it shouldn't break the bank for a head set. A plain old paper gasket won't do for any cylinder head application

[tubman]

Just so you know, I bought a pair of head gaskets at a garage sale for $1.00. I don't know what brand they were, but they were new and came nicely packaged They were just plain composite material about 1/16" thick, but they didn't have any metal ("fire rings", around the water passages) on them. I had an engine on my test stand that I was fine tuning the "squish" on, so I decided to try these for a cycle or two so I could save the "real" ones. They blew almost immediately (and this was an engine that no previous or subsequent problems with leaks). Given my experience, I'd have to say "NO".

[petehoovie]

What is your time worth???

[Ol' Ron]

The fire ring is the most important part of the gasket.

[hardtimes]

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Originally Posted by Ol' Ron

The fire ring is the most important part of the gasket.

Hey Ron,
I'm retired, so don't keep track of time, just try to keep a 'straight' track and it keeps getting harder to do, eh. But, that's the way life is supposed to be, I think !

Anyway, if pics appear, I'm working with a .065 copper 'master' , for lack of better term. Tried to locate originals and that ain't happening. When searching, got a copy of someone's idea of how it should be, but poor fit and as you have said....very important fire ring missing !

The copper master is faithful to correct original fit as I can find. The second picture shows poor fitting copy , without fire rings. Now , this copy is made of substantial material. Where/what site would a guy search to locate similar such material , if anyone knows ?
Ron, I'm thinking with only maybe 6.5 cr (or so) that the fire ring may not matter when properly torqued...what say you ?

BTW..what is time worth ? Not much, IMO, if you just sit on hands and keep hands/brain warm

[Ol' Ron]

Well if the block is flat and so are the heads, go for it. However, don't over torque, as the block had a soft deck and can distort. 45/50 lbs max.

[hardtimes]

Originally Posted by Ol' Ron

Well if the block is flat and so are the heads, go for it. However, don't over torque, as the block had a soft deck and can distort. 45/50 lbs max.

Thanks Ron, good info/thoughts !

This master is representative of a Riley 4-port '30s head gasket.
Seems they aren't made anymore ..go figure So, although necessary for some guys to assemble a 4-port '32 four banger engine, they are like hens' teeth to find. This is my way of trying to make them available for hobby needs.

[rotorwrench]

If that is for an OHV conversion then I can see why you are asking. V8 stuff is easy to find. The old aftermarket 4-banger conversion stuff is a different story. I would go with copper on that. The material has to be able to compress and annealed copper will do that with some silver paint or copper coat sprayed on. Cutting one out won't be real easy but is doable with the right tools. Copper can be annealed by heating red hot and rapidly quenching in water. A copper head gasket can be reused as long as it it annealed and is still in good condition. Copper sheet is still used for roofing in historical restorative applications.

[cas3]

the riley 4 port was just reproduced a few years ago by charle yapp, at secrets of speed magazine. no gaskets there either?

[hardtimes]

Originally Posted by rotorwrench

If that is for an OHV conversion then I can see why you are asking. V8 stuff is easy to find. The old aftermarket 4-banger conversion stuff is a different story. I would go with copper on that. The material has to be able to compress and annealed copper will do that with some silver paint or copper coat sprayed on. Cutting one out won't be real easy but is doable with the right tools. Copper can be annealed by heating red hot and rapidly quenching in water. A copper head gasket can be reused as long as it it annealed and is still in good condition. Copper sheet is still used for roofing in historical restorative applications.

'proper tools'. Would that be best done (on copper) with welder/cutter(can not think of proper name) for precision ?

[hardtimes]

Originally Posted by cas3

the riley 4 port was just reproduced a few years ago by charle yapp, at secrets of speed magazine. no gaskets there either?

Yeah, I'm aware of Charlie yapp and others with their products, none of which will work , on original riley heads.
The head gasket MUST fit exactly for longevity and proper performance.
For example, look closely at the picture of the two head gaskets that I showed. The 'composite/pressed' dark material gasket is not even close to the shape of the copper gasket shown. Close is not good in this case.

[deuce_roadster]

Have you talked to the people at Olson's gaskets? They make one off stuff.

http://www.olsonsgaskets.com/

[cmbrucew]

Hardtimes
A plasma cutter would work great. If your hands are not steady just make a template and go for it.
Bruce

[hardtimes]

Originally Posted by deuce_roadster

Have you talked to the people at Olson's gaskets? They make one off stuff.

http://www.olsonsgaskets.com/

Thanks much for this good info. I'll give them a call ! Never heard of that source, but looks promising !

I did contact another company that someone recently referred me to....Cometa Gaskets or something like that. Anyway, nice people to talk with about gaskets. Very encouraging that they could take my 'master' copper copy and make a special composite 'duplicate copy' they claim , and with special rubber coating for one time sealing use. At couple hundred a pop, is when I started looking about making something that was hobby friendly. I do appreciate that they are there and doing such work.

[hardtimes]

Originally Posted by cmbrucew

Hardtimes
A plasma cutter would work great. If your hands are not steady just make a template and go for it.
Bruce

Hey Bruce,
How have you been !
Thanks, for that (plasma cutter) is the term that my failing grey matter would not spit out !

I have a buddy who has two such machines, one more powerful and one less powerful, that would seem just right for thin copper.
I've never used a solid copper gasket before, myself. I've read where that type casket should be annealed before use. I've also been told and read that annealing is not necessary. Seems like one answer should be better than the other....but controversy. Hm, what would life be without controversy, eh !
So, to make it consumer friendly, make it out of something other than copper ?

[FlatheadTed]

There maybe three Gasket maker here within 1/2 hr that could produce what you want ,cheaper to ,A friend who works for a card board box co just put in a $250,000 computerized Laser cutter that could likely cut that in seconds flat, hes a car nut to ,

[flatheadmurre]

A company with a measuring machine and a waterjet would be a sure way to get a correct copy, not sure if it will stay within budget though...
Plasma or laser both affect the material more or less with heat a waterjet doesn´t.
If it the copper is annealed you don´t have to do it again unless it´s been exposed to mechanical force (torqed down).

[deucemac]

Check with the guys in the V forever four club. The run the antique nationals every year. And there are always several Rileys , 2 and 4 port racing every year. So somebody out there. Also, Rick Vesco's grandfather John got George Riley ' s patterns and tooling when George died. John had Fred Lobello machine the castings in San Diego. Sadly Fred died a couple of years ago. Rick lives in Utah and runs Bonneville . Either the SCTA or the USFRA will know how to get in contact with him.

[dumb person]

i have made a gasket for some rare machine. Had to make fire rings out of copper sheet and stretch it around a thin wooden sheet with holes in it and used exhaust manifold wrap for the filler. Don't really recommend it though. Can't get the real stuff out here.