update on V-12

[Ken/Alabama]

Originally Posted by 4tford

I have not pulled a valve yet but they appear to be regular lifters with mushroom valves. Will pull one tomorrow.

Post a picture of the inside of the lifter galley. That block could be a 37 and they did not have hydraulic lifters.

[mikebishop]

Originally Posted by Admiral

Are these V12 blocks made of better material than V8 blocks? I thought I read they had more nickle or something like that in the cast iron.

If they have higher nickle content than domestic V-8 blocks I'd be surprised based on my experience porting a couple of V-12s several years ago. French blocks and some Canadian blocks I've ported and modified, with higher nickle content, are noticeably harder that the majority of domestic V-8 blocks, as evidenced by the feel and metal-removal speed of carbide burrs; the burr won't give you any numbers but it doesn't lie! Carving a French or other high-nickle block takes me about 20-25 percent longer than the same work on a domestic V-8 block.

Admittedly two blocks are not a significant sampling of Lincoln V-12s. They were both mid-'40s castings and essentially identical in casting quality. When I was asked if I wanted to do the work the first time I was excited to work on what I assumed would be a superior piece compared to the V-8. Sad to say that wasn't the case; overall casting quality was comparable but the siamesed inlet tracts (1 & 2, 5 & 6, 7 & 8, 11 & 12) looked like an afterthought. They were rough and inconsistently sized and generally not well shaped. And there was no evidence of corrective handwork -- not unreasonable for a car costing 60-100 percent more than the companies baseline cars . My budget didn't allow nearly enough time to do what was required to do what I would have liked to have done. I'd cut someone a smokin' deal to port a V-12 the way it should be, time be damned! FWIW, the single-inlet center ports were all rather decent.

Mike

[4tford]

lifter valley

[kelley's restoration]

check the pan rail for cracks
tk

[Ken/Alabama]

Originally Posted by 4tford

lifter valley

Guess I should have said picture of the rear portion of the lifter galley. It got cut off in the previous picture.

[Binx]

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And still mikebishop lurks around here. That's good to know. He's the go-to guy for those who plan on porting.

Lonnie

[Ol' Ron]

Mike B
I've never had the opportunity to work on one of these, and the only ones I've ever seen running were virgin stock. Have you ever seen any power out put numbers form any of these engines. I bet they'll rev quit high.

[4tford]

This would be a good time to thank Mike for his document on porting and relieving. A must for all to read if you want better air flow in your flatty. http://www.flatheadv8.org/bishop/porting1.htm

[V12Bill]

Your picture of the valve valley shows solid lifters, but that doesn't mean that some one hasn't replaced the hydraulic lifters with solid. If the hydraulic lifters were replaced with solid lifters, check the cam for excess wear on the lobes. There is a different grind for hydraulic lifters than solid lifters. I would think that .080 would be marginal for a rebore. Have the cylinders sonic tested first to see how much meat is left.

[4tford]

pics of galley. I measured the piece broken out of the cyl and the thinnest part measures .130 so If I go .080 I would have .110 wall thickness left if all are the same as the pistons are now .040. How thin a wall can we go. Sonic testing is not a problem.

[Ol' Ron]

On the v8 I like to see .100 or more at the thinnest part, But this would be a worst case condition

[Ken/Alabama]

Originally Posted by 4tford

pics of galley. I measured the piece broken out of the cyl and the thinnest part measures .130 so If I go .080 I would have .110 wall thickness left if all are the same as the pistons are now .040. How thin a wall can we go. Sonic testing is not a problem.

That block is a 37. It uses the same valves,springs and lifters as the Ford V8. The fuel pump pushrod bushing is also the same. This block doesn't have the oiling provisions for the hydraulic lifters which started in 38. The 36 blocks had bolt on engine mounts and were casted with the block in 37.

[4tford]

Looks like this is a 36 as it has the bolt on mounts. Anyway found another bad cyl. and have decided to scrap the block. What should I salvage from this?? Is there enough demand for conn rods and cam to make it worthwhile to finish stripping it?? Thanks guys for all the comments. Scrap or not it is still a good learning experience.

[Ol' Ron]

Yes, I'd save everything.

[JSeery]

Is there a problem with sleeving it?

[4tford]

might be touch and go with a second sleeve. I guess I will haul it to the machine shop after I clean it up some more.

[JSeery]

Originally Posted by 4tford

might be touch and go with a second sleeve. I guess I will haul it to the machine shop after I clean it up some more.

Those are some healthy cracks, that's for sure.

[bobH]

Have you, or anyone, speculated on what caused the broken cylinders? I thought the heads were on when you got it. I'm sure wondering how those cylinders got the way they are, especially if the heads were on, and it was once presumably a running engine. I wouldn't scrap the block quite yet. I'm betting it's fixable by someone. Put it on the back burner - someone will raise their hand. If that was a really old, and really rare block, I think there is no doubt that it would be fixed.
just my opinion...

[4tford]

GOOD news. Took the block to machine shop today and they say yes it can be sleeved. Now it will sit here at home until I get time to do some further cleaning and checks then will hot tank, magnaflux and do a sonic test to see if the bore will go to .080. .060 will probably leave some pitting. Bill

[JSeery]

Originally Posted by 4tford

GOOD news. Took the block to machine shop today and they say yes it can be sleeved. Now it will sit here at home until I get time to do some further cleaning and checks then will hot tank, magnaflux and do a sonic test to see if the bore will go to .080. .060 will probably leave some pitting. Bill

If you are sleeving it the pitting should not be an issue. Are you thinking about just sleeving a few cylinders?