Upgrade brakes on my 42

[edhd58]

is there a discussion or post somewhere that shows/states what i need to change to upgrade my brakes to a modern type?

[cas3]

what do you have in mind, lincoln? f100? disks?

[JSeery]

The f100 upgrade would be traditional with original parts, but the Lincoln mod (also traditional) can be purchased as a kit. For the F100 you need the hubs and backing plates. All the other part are available at almost any parts supply. I can post the mod details and parts list if your interested.

[19Fordy]

Originally Posted by edhd58

is there a discussion or post somewhere that shows/states what i need to change to upgrade my brakes to a modern type?

If you decide to use the 1939 Lincoln backing plates, drums, hubs etc. made by the MT Products Co, I have tons of photos on how it's done. Glad to share them.

http://www.mtcarproducts.com/Brakes.html

[edhd58]

i remember reading somewhere that "self-actuating" brakes are a great upgrade. I just am not sure what it is and what all has to be done.

[JSeery]

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Originally Posted by edhd58

i remember reading somewhere that "self-actuating" brakes are a great upgrade. I just am not sure what it is and what all has to be done.

Simply install the parts. There are a handful of parts that work the self adjustor. The later F100/150 brake parts add this function.

Well, I missread that one!!!! I was referring to self adjusting brakes. Almost all modern drum brakes are the self-actuating style. That includes the F100 and Lincoln brakes.

[edhd58]

Originally Posted by JSeery

Simply install the parts. There are a handful of parts that work the self adjustor. The later F100/150 brake parts add this function.

what years are "later"

[Flathead Fever]

Originally Posted by edhd58

i remember reading somewhere that "self-actuating" brakes are a great upgrade. I just am not sure what it is and what all has to be done.

You mentioned, "not sure what it is". Another marathon letter. Early Ford hydraulic brakes are anchored in place at the bottom. They cannot move outward at the bottom, this is just their pivot point. Only the upper part of the shoes can be pushed away from the wheel cylinder and into the drum. So the only force that is being applied to the shoes is at the top.

Self energizing brake shoes are not solidly anchored in one place like the Early Fords shoes are anchored at the bottom. An adjustor goes between the bottom of the two shoes and a spring holds the shoes and adjustor together. The top of the shoes rest against an anchor pin, they are not attached to it Springs keep the shoes held up tight against the anchor pin. The primary (front) shoe and secondary (rear) shoe are connected to each other springs. If you grab the bottom of both shoes you can swing them forward and backwards as an assembly.This swinging motion is where the brakes get their ability to "self energize".

If we were looking at the driver's side wheel of a car, the wheel will spin counter-clockwise so naturally the drum will be spinning counter-clockwise. The brakes are going to use the drum's rotation to apply additional pressure to the secondary shoe (the rear shoe inside the drum) because the bottom assembly of those shoes have the ability to swing rearward. Let me explain, as you apply the brakes the wheel cylinders push the shoes outward until they start to contact the drum. Now the rotation of the drum tries to rotate the brake assembly that's pushing up against it, but it can't because the top of the secondary shoe has a big anchor pin in front of it. But the bottom of the shoes are just floating there, there's no anchor pin down there. Remember we can take them and swing them rearward. The rotating force shoves the bottom of that secondary shoe into the drum. That's the self energizing force applying additional pressure to that secondary shoe. Unlike an Early Ford brake shoe the secondary shoe has a force being applied to it at the top by the wheel cylinder and a force being applied to it at the bottom buy the rotation of the drum.

Because there is more force on the secondary shoe than the primary the secondary shoe's lining is longer to take advantage of the self energizing force. The extra pressure would wear out the secondary shoe before the primary shoe so the secondary shoes are always thicker so they last the amount of time as the primaries. The thick long shoe always goes to the rear on self energizing brakes.

What about Early Ford brakes. I've taken them a part and found the long thick shoe on the rear, because that is what people have been taught to do on self energizing brakes. Wrong! The shoes go on the opposite way on an Early Ford because the Early Ford brake shoes do have some self energizing capability but it works opposite. The shoes are held in place at the bottom so they can't help put additional pressure on the brake drum but the tops can move. If you were to push the rear shoe in towards the wheel cylinder the front shoe would move away from the wheel cylinder and up against the drum because the pressure is transferred through the brake fluid. The rotation of the drum will push on the rear shoe and force the front shoe into the drum. That is why the front shoe is the long one on an Early Ford. You will also notice one side of an Early Ford wheel cylinder is larger than the other. The hydraulic pressure remains the same on both sides of the wheel cylinder but because the front of the cylinder is larger there is more surface area for that pressure to push against. What is going to work better, two 160 lb. guys pushing a car or four 160 lb. guys pushing a car? That is what a larger surface area of a hydraulic cylinder does for you. Your wheel cylinder's size is limited to the size of the master cylinder's piston and stroke. It must be large enough to move enough hydraulic fluid to operate the bigger wheel cylinders but not so large that the pressure is reduced. You can compromise and just make the side of the wheel cylinder larger on the shoes that do most of the braking and not on the reversing shoe where you don't need as much force. On an Early Ford the front shoe is called the "forward" shoe and the rear shoe is the "reversing" shoe.

[JSeery]

I'll have to look, but the parts are all interchangeable if you have the F100 backing plates and hubs. I attached a pdf file on this modification using F1 parts. Most of the parts are the same, but be sure you pay attention! (not all of the photos used in the attachment are original with me!!)

Update:
Wheel Cylinders
F100 65-67 Raybestos WC37083 / WC37084
F100 53-67 Centric 13468012 / 13468011
F100 53-60 NAPA UP9091 / UP9090

Front Brake Hose
F100 53 Dorman H1146 18 inches
F100 53-60 Centric 15068007 16 inches


Brake Shoes
F100 53-66 Raybestos 228PG 2 x 11
F100 53-66 Bendix 228
F100 53-66 Centric 11102280
F100 53-66 NAPA TS10A UP10AR

Spring/HW Kit
F100 53-67 Carlson H7144

Adjustor Kit
F100 64-76 Carlson H2540 / H2541
F100 64-76 Raybestos H2540 / H2541
F100 64-76 NAPA UP80691 / UP80690

F100 Outer Hub Bearing TIMKEN 09067
F100 Outer Hub Race TIMKEN 09195
Inter Hub Bearing TIMKEN 14116 (requires modification)
Inter Hub Race TIMKEN14276
Seal National 450461

I'm sure other parts will work, but these are the numbers I have.

[edhd58]

JSeery,thanks guy.
You are a wealth of knowledge.
Thanks for being willing to share.

[Vintage Copper 47]

I went to the Lincoln style brakes for my 47... They work wonderfully

[Charlie Stephens]

If you are having trouble with your brakes lets discuss it before you dump money at the problem. The '47 brakes are probably "good" but of course the Lincoln brakes are better.

Charlie Stephens

[edhd58]

Charlie,mine are 42 brakes and to stop in a hurry from 60 aint gonna happen. I know because of a Saturday road trip

[39portlander]

I upgraded the brakes on my 39 pickup with the ECI kit for the front that uses 77 F150 rotors, perfect as I own one. The rears are the MT lincoln bendix drum kit, excellent stopping power.

I have numerous pictures of my truck resurrection and some brake photos are in there. The guys over @ ECI were very good with any questions I had, that front brake kit was easy and well instructed.

Let us know how you make out.

[JM 35 Sedan]

If I ever upgrage the mechanical brakes & floaters on my '35's, I would definitely bypass the '39-'48 style Ford/Merc hydraulic brakes, and go directly to the Lincoln brake conversions being sold today, along with the Richard Lacy MC brackets that allow using the original clutch/brake pedal assembly.

[Talkwrench]

Yes the "Lincoln" setup is great I fitted the MT ones up front , I did have some problems with them not fitting properly it was a manufacturing fault , they welded a part wrong. Also the linings supplied by them are barely over 1 3/4" so I had them remade with a full 2" wide locally. I run a vacuum booster and a standard master cylinder , standard rear. It pulls up , yup sure does !

[barnfind]

39 Portlander:
The Speedway kit (Part # 91031909) appears to use the same F150 disk brake setup has this warning:
Wheels must have 3-7/16" center hole and have been designed for disc brake applications. Will NOT work with early Ford factory wire or steel drum brake wheels. You will need to use a later disc brake steel wheel or aftermarket wheel.

The ECI kit does not have a similar warning - what wheels are you using?

[JSeery]

Not sure what they are referring to, but the F100/F150 rims will obviously fit the F100 hubs! I have never had any problem with any rim fitting. Maybe they are saying 30s factory wire wheels and 5-wide, etc. No idea what disc brake rims would have to do with it. This conversion uses all original Ford parts, the only modification is to the inter bearing on the hub. It has been done thousands of times starting in the 50s.

OK, the Speedway kit in question is a disc brake kit, not the F100 conversion kit! Here is the link: http://static.speedwaymotors.com/pdf/91031909pdf.pdf

barnfind was 100% connect (no surprise there!) and was directing his response to 39 Portlander (as he clearly posted), my error.

[barnfind]

For the Speedway kit, I found this from someone who purchased it for a 1940 pickup conversion and provided their feedback:

it has front disc brakes the 1940 Factory Stock wheels will work (solid steel).

[1937hemi]

I used the Speedway on my 41 and it stops like it has disk brakes.
FYI: Speedway brakes are actually made by MT and Spee3days sells them for less and includes free shipping