Brake parts identification and puller info Q..

[hardtimes]

Learning curve on MODIFIED '36 just obtained is..uh fun ! Guy sold me 'original' driver that is not as advertised. Therefore, I'm gonna need your help time/time. Right now NO brakes and need your input IDing what's on this car!
What years is this front drum/backing plate off of? Also, see pic of rear drum exterior. Can not get off of car and don't want to ruin anything..what year drum and what puller?

[V8COOPMAN]

'40-ish type brakes. Shoes are mounted backwards. DD

[hardtimes]

Originally Posted by V8COOPMAN

'40-ish type brakes. Shoes are mounted backwards. DD

WHAT..'backwards' ! Hm, kinda explains some other conditions found also. Thanks for your input. These are what's called 'Lockheed' brakes,no If they are lockheed, can Bendix (which I'm told are better,i.e.-self energizing/floating) be directly substituted for lockheed on these back plates?

[V8COOPMAN]

Originally Posted by hardtimes

WHAT..'backwards' ! Hm, kinda explains some other conditions found also. Thanks for your input. These are what's called 'Lockheed' brakes,no If they are lockheed, can Bendix (which I'm told are better,i.e.-self energizing/floating) be directly substituted for lockheed on these back plates?

Yup, as Henry/Kokomo indicated, these are Lockheed-type brakes. On Lockheeds, the LONG shoe lining goes toward the front of the vehicle, as does the LARGEer half of the WHEEL CYLINDER (yours appears correct).

There are a very few "die-hard" guys that have done MAJOR surgery to a Lockheed-type backing plate to convert to a Bendix-type action. Main reason being to keep the traditional "look" of the old FORD backing plate. Reasonably, a conversion using the Lockheed backing plates is, well...not reasonable. Early Lincoln Bendix-type brakes are being reproduced now and will bolt-on to your spindles. You can even use the drums you have pictured with the Lincolns. DD

[Charlie Stephens]

Originally Posted by hardtimes

WHAT..'backwards' ! Hm, kinda explains some other conditions found also. Thanks for your input. These are what's called 'Lockheed' brakes,no If they are lockheed, can Bendix (which I'm told are better,i.e.-self energizing/floating) be directly substituted for lockheed on these back plates?

The expert on the Lincoln "Bendix" brakes is Richard Lacy at [email protected], (626) 338-2282. They won't be cheap but they are excellent brakes. Fine tune your existing brakes and then decide if it is worth the extra money.

Charlie Stephens

[hardtimes]

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Thanks for all you guy and you input!
Charlie... I'm talking to a guy over on the swap side about puller, but appreciate your tip regarding high end model. Might just go with it, but also have a bud here who has offered to 'loan' his to me...if the correct one. So, options are good,eh!
Yeah, get it going and get it right..is good idea , then now have Richard as backup. Hmm, talking of backup...thanks for that curb on opposite side of street to stop me! Tho brakes are only one of the problems existing now;
Tip of the day: don't buy long distance without you and/or buddy laying hands on!

[Charlie Stephens]

The rear drums use the same puller as used for a Model A (except the early ones). You might check local clubs and see if there is one to loan or rent. I like the one from Winfield Tool Works, (631) 928-3316. Expensive but cheaper than replacing an axle ($150 + $20 shipping in the current V8 Times). If the brakes adjust at the bottom they are pre-war. If they are self aligning at the bottom with a slot in the brake shoe they are post war. The drums are '40 to '48. Some years had the hubs on the outside and some had the hubs on the inside and I can never remember which (the hub and drum assemblies are interchangeable '40-'48).

Charlie Stephens

[39portlander]

A small booklet I am currently reading, Vern Tardel's booklet #3 Ford Brakes shows 39-42 and 46-48 illustrations front and rear. A great reference and may help you.

I liked comparing the OEM and re-routed in-frame line postion and attachments diagram and illustration which is my current weekend project. Scott

[Henry/Kokomo]

They are Lockheed brakes. If there is an adjustment at on the backing plate the bottom of the shoes and one above center, they're '39-'42. If there are no adjustments at the bottom (anchor pins), they are '46-'48. Bendix brakes are an improvement but, I believe, they require a backing plate change. The long shoe goes toward the front of the car. Hope this helps.

[hardtimes]

Originally Posted by Henry/Kokomo

They are Lockheed brakes. If there is an adjustment at on the backing plate the bottom of the shoes and one above center, they're '39-'42. If there are no adjustments at the bottom (anchor pins), they are '46-'48. Bendix brakes are an improvement but, I believe, they require a backing plate change. The long shoe goes toward the front of the car. Hope this helps.

Henry,
Thanks for your input! Yeah, they have each shoe anchored at bottom(no adj) then 46/48, eh. Well, you confirmed anothers statement that shoes are installed 'backward'! Geeze, that would make them even more ineffecient than when properly installed. Guess I'm getting tired...as I should have spotted this immediately! Mabe tooo pissed about getting something that was claimed to have 'no issues'...should have told me...'no brakes' ! Henry, taking a second look at this setup...are the wheel cylinders also BACKWARDS...i.e.- the small cyl end should be towards the BIG shoe and the big cyl should be actuating the SMALL shoe Anyone?

[hardtimes]

Originally Posted by Henry/Kokomo

They are Lockheed brakes. If there is an adjustment at on the backing plate the bottom of the shoes and one above center, they're '39-'42. If there are no adjustments at the bottom (anchor pins), they are '46-'48. Bendix brakes are an improvement but, I believe, they require a backing plate change. The long shoe goes toward the front of the car. Hope this helps.

Henry,
Just a pic and notes to correct my misunderstanding of your information on which lockheed brakes that I have pictured here. Mine are definitely '39/'42...by your description. My shoes are held at the bottom by bolts/pins and ECCENTRIC BRASS/BRONZE(?) WASHER/adjusters. Thanks for you guidance here !

BTW- if servicable lining (thickness) are on shoes and only problem is ...some sort of contamination,i.e.-brake fluid/grease/dirt, what is best cleaner for shoe material?

[B-O-B]

I use carb cleaner then 120 grit paper on a block of wood & if they don't cleanup new shoes are not all that expensive. If you can, find a shop to arc the shoes to the drum. Good luck on finding a shop with a brake shoe arcing machine or understands what you are asking for.

[visionary]

I believe they are suposed to be installed as they are with the large shoe foreword and the small shoe in back, just the opposit of modern self energising brakes.

If you loosen the nuts on the anchors and turn the bolt you should see the shoes move in and out they ea adjust independant

[V8COOPMAN]

Originally Posted by visionary

I believe they are suposed to be installed as they are with the large shoe foreword and the small shoe in back, just the opposit of modern self energising brakes.

visionary...I believe your "vision" may be playing tricks on you. There are several clues evident in the pic. The bottom of the grill is evident at the right of pic. The steering arm / tie rod end which faces the REAR can be seen protruding from behind the backing plate. I see the LONG lining (in this pic) facing the REAR. DD

[mrtexas]

I'd suggest bendix brakes only on the front. The lockheed brakes are fine for the back.

https://sites.google.com/site/mrtexa...ydraulicbrakes

[Henry/Kokomo]

Mr. Stephens has the right idea. Get the brakes you have working properly and adjusted properly THEN decide if you need to replace them. Just remember this is like any other bad job . . . . .its a great learning experience! Lots of good folks on the 'Barn can give you pointers as needed. Good Luck!

[JM 35 Sedan]

A good puller that pulls from the groove in the hub like Windfield/KR Wilson design is the best way to get those tight fitting rear drums off. When you put the rears back on make sure you torque those axle nuts to 200 - 220 ft. pounds and retorque them again (maybe a couple times) after doing some driving.

ps...I made my own rear drum puller that has never failed to remove a drum...yet. Was very easy to make. I have posted pics of it before but could do again if anyone is interested.

Pictures of hub/drum puller that I made in my shop added by request of another Ford Barner....

[hardtimes]

JM35 Sedan,
200+lbs torque! Hmm, for some reason thot that that torque was same as Model A, i.e.- 100 to 110! You have a wrench that registers that much torque?
Well, what do you think of left axle being at about 10lbs and the right one being at about 50lbs ! That's what I found today on the rears of '36. What do you feel would be the negative results of running very many miles with that insufficient torque ?

BTW thanks to all you guys for puller info/input. One of the barners here is sending me his puller asap !! Yup, barners like him actually do exist......

[JM 35 Sedan]

[QUOTE=hardtimes;457546]JM35 Sedan,
200+lbs torque! Hmm, for some reason thot that that torque was same as Model A, i.e.- 100 to 110! You have a wrench that registers that much torque?
Well, what do you think of left axle being at about 10lbs and the right one being at about 50lbs ! That's what I found today on the rears of '36. What do you feel would be the negative results of running very many miles with that insufficient torque ?

Here is some info for you to consider that was posted on Bill B's Techno website. Lots of other good reading/learning there as well....
http://www.btc-bci.com/~billben/reartorq.htm
Failure to properly torque these nuts could lead to axle failure.

[hardtimes]

John,
Thanks for that great info/confirmation: 220 it is then !
NOW worried about axle damage/failure as you say. This whole car is an exercize in examining a rolling disaster, i.e.- everything that I've examined is a wreck in the making; wheel cylinders rusted frozen;wheel bearings not greased ruined; spindle nuts exceedingly loose; brake linings on backward; emergency brake cables bungee corded to frame; emer brake no connected/fabbed in; fatique cracks on/on...bummer thus far