To Babbit or Not To Babbit vs Inserted??

[MikeK]

Originally Posted by Kohnke Rebabbitting

Ge's Mike, that brings back a lot of memories, and I don't know if it was really a (Hundred Million Pascals or Not) ( you Really couldn't get a good count, as they seemed to move faster then the eye, and maybe like you said, can't be seen with the Eye, it sure did seem like it!. Any way, Dad got a 1/2 Pint of Kerosene, in which I told him, that if he wanted to cover the whole area, that he would need a Gallon, but he didn't buy it! Any way, I thought this is working good, as you could see, what I thought was those Pesky little Pascals, screaming the tops of there little heads off, until I realized the screaming was coming from me. It did do its job, but the folks couldn't get me out of the cow tank, for 2 days! Cows didn't like it either, as it left an Oil Slick!



A Pascal Survivor. Herm.

I guess I got a bad case of the pascals from hangin' with the fluid dynamics guys at IIT. They had a nasty habit of trying new things and arithmeticking it all to death. Cogitators, the whole lot of them. Disgusting, yet contagious..

[Rex_A_Lott]

I dont really have anything constructive to add here, just wanted to bump it back to the top, because I've been reading here and asking myself this same question for a few months now.

[msmaron]

It has been very informative, but typical of these posts it went WAY WAY off my topic, Thanks to all that chimed in, Mike and Herm, loved your posts the way you went at each other and thanks to all. i will be changing the head gasket this weekend and will post follow up photos...
Mark

[1931 flamingo]

To "stir" it up some more. Which head gasket are you using??
Paul in CT

[Tom Wesenberg]

It was the copper gasket.

[PC/SR]

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sphanna: The circumferential groove channels the oil around the center or the bearing, not across. Without pressure, the oil is not going to spread far across the bearing. I even have some doubt as to how effective pressure on a Model A rod would be because the oil spurt hole in the top of the big end would not allow much pressure build up.
The A rod had X grooves across the rod cap and across the big end, with the X intersecting at the dipper hole. There is also a short "scooped out" groove at the dipper hole. Thus the oil would be direct to the center of the rod, as well as across it. There was also a V shaped relief at the parting line.
The A mains originally had a spiral groove across the caps and the block side that crossed through the oil hole from the valve chamber. These grooves carried the oil across the main bearings, not around them.
Looks like I got the pics up, thanks Tom. 1. Rod cap. you can see a part of the X in the rod big end. 2 rear main cap. 3 center and front main cap 4. center main block. The rear main block also has a groove through the gravity feed hole that goes across the bearing. Sorry no good pic. Pat

[James Rogers]

Excellent dissertation and, all correct.

[Gord. B by the bay]

Very helpfull Mike many thanks for sharing Gord. B by the bay

[Kohnke Rebabbitting]

Well Mike, I have 3500.00 dollars of babbitt in the tinning pot, and 6000.00 dollars in the Pouring pot, and the only Gas around the the pots for 44 years, has come from the L.P. tank, and Me!

So with out a bad bearing in 44 years, with at least 30,000 spun poured, just in Model A Ford rods, not counting all other cars, tractors Ect., I just for the life of me, can't figure out what I am doing wrong?

Of the bearings that have been changed over to inserts in the last 10 years, have now had there bearing inserts that they used Obsoleted completely, or in certain sizes. Say the insert you used is no longer available, then what, happens every day, companies go broke, People Die, Not enough call for an insert Ect. May be the cranks wore .002, and still round, and no bigger sizes, then what? Nothing is made for ever!

Race cars never had trouble with babbitt bearings, or any of the other cars. The only time for bearing trouble, is when the engines got wore out or mistreated, and I don't think your inserts would act any different, may be not even as good!

My first questions to anyone with a babbitt pot are what alloy, how do you degas it, and what do you use as a grain refiner prior to pour, and how long do you hold it after the final degas and grain refinement? The answer to the last few Q's is inevitably "Huh?". That's why I will always use inserts and NEVER have anyone who does model A work do a babbitt job for anything I own. If you want to hear "Huh?" again, ask what their protocol is to degas, pig, and de-skull the melting pot between runs, and at what time interval?

As far as I am concerned, "Huh" is an Appropriate answer! You may have to do what you are suggesting in a foundry setting, with Aluminum Ect. But the way I look at is, in something doesn't work, then you have to Question WHY?
But How Do you fix something that works?



My first questions to anyone with a babbitt pot are what alloy, how do you degas it, and what do you use as a grain refiner prior to pour, and how long do you hold it after the final degas and grain refinement? The answer to the last few Q's is inevitably "Huh?". That's why I will always use inserts and NEVER have anyone who does model A work do a babbitt job for anything I own. If you want to hear "Huh?" again, ask what their protocol is to degas, pig, and de-skull the melting pot between runs, and at what time interval?


No Where, In any book, or artical on rebabbitting, have I every read anything to do with what you are talking about in the level of babbitt, past the ore stage. SO, I said to my self, "Hay Self" Why don't you call the the foundrys that put the mix togather, so I did, I read them your paragraph, and asked them if it is something to look into, you will never guess what the first guy said, well maybe you did, he said "Huh? So according to the first guy, and they are mixing it, it is nothing I would have to be concerned about, as what I work with, is way after the stage you are talking about, as the babbitt is already refined. And as far as holes in the babbitt, and wrinkles, Ect. That is corected by the Babbitter. With all this said, there is no two bearings, and or Jigs the will pour alike, Heavy bearings, Thin bearings, Leakey bearings Ect. The only secret that I know of Hidden in a good bearing, is all Temps, Time, and Heat retention. And you have to know what to do to correct it.

I do feel sorry for James, agreeing with Mike, as he now knows you can't pour a Model A Block like he has been doing, and coming to terms with all the machinery, and testing equipment he will have to put in to do a Model A block right, unless he has it?



That's why I will always use inserts and NEVER have anyone who does model A work do a babbitt job for anything I own.



Thats about what I thought Mike, You know all about pouring babbitt, but can't do it your self, thats all right, you arn't the only one on here like that.



But, I still feel sorry for James.

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Originally Posted by Kohnke Rebabbitting

But, I still feel sorry for James.

Herm, what you trying to imply?

.

[Kohnke Rebabbitting]

Originally Posted by BRENT in 10-uh-C

Herm, what you trying to imply?

.

I am not implying any thing, did you for get how to comprehend? Read the Post!

[hardtimes]

Wow, you guys are thought provoking, informative and entertaining! Made me run (well hobble) right out to examine block/rods/stuff in the shed to check on your info and learn further!
Herm, Mike, PC and others...thanks for the instruction and entertainment (hmm, pascal ? must be insider stuff.

[MikeK]

Originally Posted by Kohnke Rebabbitting

Well Mike, . . . and the only Gas around the the pots for 44 years, has come from the L.P. tank, and Me!

You sure let a lot of it go in this thread!
I'm done here in this thread too. Moving on.

[Kohnke Rebabbitting]

Originally Posted by MikeK

You sure let a lot of it go in this thread!
I'm done here in this thread too. Moving on.

Mike, It sounds like the pot calling the kettle black, You being from the Windy City, and all!

[Kohnke Rebabbitting]

Join Date: May 2010
Location: South Florida
Posts: 2,834

The answer to the last few Q's is inevitably "Huh?". That's why I will always use inserts and NEVER have anyone who does model A work do a babbitt job for anything I own. If you want to hear "Huh?" again, ask what their protocol is to degas, pig, and de-skull the melting pot between runs, and at what time interval?



Re: Engine rebuild cost
$2000- $5000 Check with www.schwalms.com Schwalm's/Ora Landis (Babbitted Bearings)(Pennsylvania)


Sounds like a contradiction in terms, or ideas to me Mike! Or Schwalms meets all your babbitt processing ideas. Maybe you could ask them to show us all the steps you have to take, to show how we should be doing it, or unless it a secret. I know I am an Inquiring Mind!

[James Rogers]

I don't see any implication, Herm thinks me an IDIOT. This has become very obvious in the last months so I just don't reply to any of his posts no matter what. I guess I just don't know what I am doing according to the GOD OF BABBITT.

Last I have to say!

[Kohnke Rebabbitting]

I do feel sorry for James, agreeing with Mike, as he now knows you can't pour a Model A Block like he has been doing, and coming to terms with all the machinery, and testing equipment he will have to put in to do a Model A block right, unless he has it?

Well, this is for your acting Mommy "Brent", read this one over, and over, or just wait until morning, when the "Bud" is worn off!

Originally Posted by James Rogers

I don't see any implication, Herm thinks me an IDIOT. This has become very obvious in the last months so I just don't reply to any of his posts no matter what. I guess I just don't know what I am doing according to the GOD OF BABBITT.

Last I have to say!

No place that I know of that I have called you an "Idiot" but when I, don't agree with any statement, idea, supposed fact from anybody, you will here a different opinion, and as many times as I have to say it. If I am wrong, SHOW ME. If you want me to agree with you, start saying things I agree with!

Oh, and James, my title in not "God of Babbitt" it is Babbitt God. You only use God of Babbitt when you are an Apprentice!

It is just like the Guy who had a job baiting hooks with fish parts, for rich people, down at the Wharf. He worked 2 years for his boss as an Apprentice Baiter, then one day after 2 years, his Boss gave him his Diploma, showing that he had graduated to being a Master.......

[1931 flamingo]

FEEL THE LOVE...................

Paul in CT