The Ford Barn

metalho · 11-29-2011, 09:39 AM

You folks ever use Picklex? THIS ISNT SPAM! Im just trying to find a good product for my pitted truck

Picklex® 20 characteristics

Water based product (has little bit of phosphoric acid)
Environmentally safe, non-hazardous, non-toxic
Ready to use and should not be diluted

Picklex® 20 is a combination of the following
Rust remover (removes flash rust completely in less than 30 seconds). De-rusting/coating of heavy rusted tools or parts can be done by dipping in Picklex® 20 for few hours.
Rust converter (converts micro-rust to a conversion coating)
Rust inhibitor (provides very long term indoor rust protection in terms of years)
Pre-treatment (provides long term corrosion resistance, resulting in longer paint life). Provides a conversion coating (protective coating which becomes a part of the metal) with nano thickness
Anti-spatter (for welding application)
Picklex® 20 provides rust/contamination free surface, seals and stops further oxidation
Method of application
On new metal surface: Spray & brush with a paint brush. Stretch to put a very thin coating. Any flash rust will get removed in 30 seconds.
For sandblasted metal surface : Blow off or wash the sand on the metal surface and dry. The flash rust resulting from washing will get removed within 30 seconds after applying Picklex® 20.
After one minute (do not let the coating to start drying on the surface which will result in residue), wipe off the excess chemical down to the metal surface (wipe dry). This will provide a extremely thin thickness of the coating (nano thickness) which becomes part of the metal surface. Air dry. Any powdery residue on the surface after complete drying means that the excess chemical is not removed completely, which can affect the bonding.
Primer can be applied on the Picklex® 20 coating after complete drying without any buffing or sanding. Note: Test first on a very small area (around 6 sq.in.). After the primer is cured, perform a bonding test as shown below.
Bonding Test (Cross Hatch Test)
Take a razor blade and draw 4 to 5 straight lines (about 4" to 5 "), 1/4" apart cutting through the paint and the Picklex® 20 coating down to the metal surface. Then draw 4 to 5 lines perpendicular over the previous lines (like a Tic-Tac-Toe). Then stick a masking tape (or any tacky plastic tape) real good on the grid and then take a corner of the tape and pull upward slowly. If the paint did not bond properly, the small 1/4" squares will come off on the tape. This test will show whether the primer has bonding properly.
When the bonding test comes out good, perform the complete job exactly the same way.

Things to Do and Not to Do

Do not keep the Picklex® 20 chemical longer than one minute after applying on the metal surface, because it will start drying and it will be hard to remove all excess chemical completely from the metal surface, which will affect proper drying and proper bonding with the top coating.
Do not use self etching primer (primer which has acid in it for etching the metal surface), because it will react with Picklex® 20 coating and ruin the coating and fail the bonding. Ask the primer supplier whether the primer has acid in it (some primer has acid in it, but still is not called an “etching primer”).
Apply the filler on the primer instead of Picklex® 20 coating.
Picklex® 20 coating provides a very long term corrosion resistance, which along with a good primer & paint will provide much longer paint life than just applying the primer/paint over blasted surface.
After blasting, the oxidation/rusting forms immediately (called micro-rust). So apply Picklex® 20 on all metal surface (whether there is any visible rust or not) to prepare the surface rust/contamination free and keeps the surface from further rusting. This provides much better bonding with the primer and also provides a much longer paint life.
Try to use two part Epoxy Primer (which has no acid), because Epoxy primer provides a good corrosion resistance and along with Picklex® 20 coating, the paint life will be lot longer.
Keep the Picklex treated metal inside away from coming in contact with water.
If the car is kept stored for a very long time with Picklex® 20 coating before priming, just blow off the dust or wipe with a damp cloth before priming. Do not use any chemical, such as solvent, de-greaser or paint thinner etc., because it may react with the coating and may affect the bonding. In fact, no other chemical should be used over Picklex® 20 coating.
Picklex® 20 coating can withstand very high temperature and therefore it can be applied to the exhaust pipe and other engine parts where the temperature can go high during operation. Also, Picklex® 20 coating is flexible in nature and so it expands and contracts with the heat.
Picklex® 20 can also be applied inside the gas tank where it will provide a thin coating protecting from rusting. Since the coating is a conversion coating, no particle will come out to clog the fuel line. Also, the Picklex® 20 coating is compatible with gasoline which has no effect on gasoline.
De-rusting/coating of small heavy rusted part or tools can be performed by dipping in Picklex® 20 for few hours (or overnight). Picklex® 20 will clean the rust inside and outside and provide a protective coating and seal, all at the same time. After completion, wipe off the excess chemical and air dry. Remove the rust particles by straining the chemical and re-use the Picklex® 20. Unlike acid de-rusting, Picklex® 20 does not produce any sludge or waste disposal problems.

Welding
Welding can be performed over Picklex® 20 coating after complete drying. Weld strength will increase considerably on steel. Also no weld spatter will form (anti-spatter). After welding and cleaning the weld area, spray Picklex® 20 on the weld when the weld is just warm (about 120°F). This will reduce weld scaling and also convert the weld scale formed to a conversion coating which will enhance bonding with the top coating.

Picklex 20 Purchasing Info Link

MikeK · 11-29-2011, 12:39 PM

Yes, I've used it, but only as a hot solution to dip blasted parts before throwing them on the "never to be see again in my lifetime" shelf, and only because I won a gallon as a door prize. My guess: The stuff is about 5% H3PO4 and some trace of a nondescript ortho-ester that may or may not have some chelating property, along with some (non-polar??) surfacant. Anything that cannot be rinsed prior to paint is suspect for residue bond (lack of) in my book. To make matters worse, both HOK & SPI epoxy primers are reported incompatible with it on the stovebolt.com forum. In any case, test it on some junk sheet metal for bonding of your primer to the unavoidable residue. Personally, I'd take a pass and go for straight phosphoric, leaving just a chemically bonded phosphate with no residue. The only thing worse than finding your $$$ paint job crapped out a year later is the labor of stripping everything including fills levelers and glaze to get to the root of the problem at the bare metal. Been there, learned my lesson.

Kevin in NJ · 11-29-2011, 01:25 PM

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I have been using it for a while. It does a significant amount of surface protection for parts that have been blasted. It does NOT convert the stuff in the bottom of the pits, you must blast the dark color out of the pits. Properly blasted parts have lasted over 4 years in my basement with no rust. If you leave rust in the bottom of the pits then the pit will flower in around 3 to 6 months.

Keep in mind NONE of the rust converters that you wipe on and wipe off will fix the rust at the bottom of a pit. No matter what they try to tell you on the label.

None of the epoxy primers are compatible with any acid coating. Unless you are assured the PH at the surface is not too acid. The acid will prevent the epoxy from curing and it will remain soft. The pickle X has a lower level of acid then straight phosphoric acids so it may be a better choice.

I have not personally had any paint peel because of the Pickle X. BUT I have not had paint on the parts long enough to know if it screwed me up or not. I will tell you how well it works in 10 years when I know for sure.

Now let me qualify my use of Pickle X.

I was drawn to the product because it is a wipe on, let set for 2 minutes, and wipe clean product. When I set up to sand blast I needed to get all my parts done. I anticipated that I would not be able to do the metal work on some parts for a while and did not want to epoxy and the mess up the paint doing repairs. The pickle X is salt spray tested and is a good way to protect the metal until I could do metal work. I scuff the surface well before I paint the epoxy.

As with any product, read the tech sheets and manuals. Quite often I see advice given about surface prep that goes against the recommendations of the manufacturers tech sheets. I am sure there are many failures from not following directions.

11-29-2011, 09:39 AM	#1
metalho Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Bothell Washington Posts: 530	Picklex 20? ever use it??? You folks ever use Picklex? THIS ISNT SPAM! Im just trying to find a good product for my pitted truck Picklex® 20 characteristics Water based product (has little bit of phosphoric acid) Environmentally safe, non-hazardous, non-toxic Ready to use and should not be diluted Picklex® 20 is a combination of the following Rust remover (removes flash rust completely in less than 30 seconds). De-rusting/coating of heavy rusted tools or parts can be done by dipping in Picklex® 20 for few hours. Rust converter (converts micro-rust to a conversion coating) Rust inhibitor (provides very long term indoor rust protection in terms of years) Pre-treatment (provides long term corrosion resistance, resulting in longer paint life). Provides a conversion coating (protective coating which becomes a part of the metal) with nano thickness Anti-spatter (for welding application) Picklex® 20 provides rust/contamination free surface, seals and stops further oxidation Method of application On new metal surface: Spray & brush with a paint brush. Stretch to put a very thin coating. Any flash rust will get removed in 30 seconds. For sandblasted metal surface : Blow off or wash the sand on the metal surface and dry. The flash rust resulting from washing will get removed within 30 seconds after applying Picklex® 20. After one minute (do not let the coating to start drying on the surface which will result in residue), wipe off the excess chemical down to the metal surface (wipe dry). This will provide a extremely thin thickness of the coating (nano thickness) which becomes part of the metal surface. Air dry. Any powdery residue on the surface after complete drying means that the excess chemical is not removed completely, which can affect the bonding. Primer can be applied on the Picklex® 20 coating after complete drying without any buffing or sanding. Note: Test first on a very small area (around 6 sq.in.). After the primer is cured, perform a bonding test as shown below. Bonding Test (Cross Hatch Test) Take a razor blade and draw 4 to 5 straight lines (about 4" to 5 "), 1/4" apart cutting through the paint and the Picklex® 20 coating down to the metal surface. Then draw 4 to 5 lines perpendicular over the previous lines (like a Tic-Tac-Toe). Then stick a masking tape (or any tacky plastic tape) real good on the grid and then take a corner of the tape and pull upward slowly. If the paint did not bond properly, the small 1/4" squares will come off on the tape. This test will show whether the primer has bonding properly. When the bonding test comes out good, perform the complete job exactly the same way. Things to Do and Not to Do Do not keep the Picklex® 20 chemical longer than one minute after applying on the metal surface, because it will start drying and it will be hard to remove all excess chemical completely from the metal surface, which will affect proper drying and proper bonding with the top coating. Do not use self etching primer (primer which has acid in it for etching the metal surface), because it will react with Picklex® 20 coating and ruin the coating and fail the bonding. Ask the primer supplier whether the primer has acid in it (some primer has acid in it, but still is not called an “etching primer”). Apply the filler on the primer instead of Picklex® 20 coating. Picklex® 20 coating provides a very long term corrosion resistance, which along with a good primer & paint will provide much longer paint life than just applying the primer/paint over blasted surface. After blasting, the oxidation/rusting forms immediately (called micro-rust). So apply Picklex® 20 on all metal surface (whether there is any visible rust or not) to prepare the surface rust/contamination free and keeps the surface from further rusting. This provides much better bonding with the primer and also provides a much longer paint life. Try to use two part Epoxy Primer (which has no acid), because Epoxy primer provides a good corrosion resistance and along with Picklex® 20 coating, the paint life will be lot longer. Keep the Picklex treated metal inside away from coming in contact with water. If the car is kept stored for a very long time with Picklex® 20 coating before priming, just blow off the dust or wipe with a damp cloth before priming. Do not use any chemical, such as solvent, de-greaser or paint thinner etc., because it may react with the coating and may affect the bonding. In fact, no other chemical should be used over Picklex® 20 coating. Picklex® 20 coating can withstand very high temperature and therefore it can be applied to the exhaust pipe and other engine parts where the temperature can go high during operation. Also, Picklex® 20 coating is flexible in nature and so it expands and contracts with the heat. Picklex® 20 can also be applied inside the gas tank where it will provide a thin coating protecting from rusting. Since the coating is a conversion coating, no particle will come out to clog the fuel line. Also, the Picklex® 20 coating is compatible with gasoline which has no effect on gasoline. De-rusting/coating of small heavy rusted part or tools can be performed by dipping in Picklex® 20 for few hours (or overnight). Picklex® 20 will clean the rust inside and outside and provide a protective coating and seal, all at the same time. After completion, wipe off the excess chemical and air dry. Remove the rust particles by straining the chemical and re-use the Picklex® 20. Unlike acid de-rusting, Picklex® 20 does not produce any sludge or waste disposal problems. Welding Welding can be performed over Picklex® 20 coating after complete drying. Weld strength will increase considerably on steel. Also no weld spatter will form (anti-spatter). After welding and cleaning the weld area, spray Picklex® 20 on the weld when the weld is just warm (about 120°F). This will reduce weld scaling and also convert the weld scale formed to a conversion coating which will enhance bonding with the top coating. Picklex 20 Purchasing Info Link

11-29-2011, 12:39 PM	#2
MikeK Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Windy City Posts: 2,919	Re: Picklex 20? ever use it??? Yes, I've used it, but only as a hot solution to dip blasted parts before throwing them on the "never to be see again in my lifetime" shelf, and only because I won a gallon as a door prize. My guess: The stuff is about 5% H3PO4 and some trace of a nondescript ortho-ester that may or may not have some chelating property, along with some (non-polar??) surfacant. Anything that cannot be rinsed prior to paint is suspect for residue bond (lack of) in my book. To make matters worse, both HOK & SPI epoxy primers are reported incompatible with it on the stovebolt.com forum. In any case, test it on some junk sheet metal for bonding of your primer to the unavoidable residue. Personally, I'd take a pass and go for straight phosphoric, leaving just a chemically bonded phosphate with no residue. The only thing worse than finding your $$$ paint job crapped out a year later is the labor of stripping everything including fills levelers and glaze to get to the root of the problem at the bare metal. Been there, learned my lesson.

11-29-2011, 01:25 PM	#3
Kevin in NJ Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: South East NJ Posts: 3,398	Re: Picklex 20? ever use it??? Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) I have been using it for a while. It does a significant amount of surface protection for parts that have been blasted. It does NOT convert the stuff in the bottom of the pits, you must blast the dark color out of the pits. Properly blasted parts have lasted over 4 years in my basement with no rust. If you leave rust in the bottom of the pits then the pit will flower in around 3 to 6 months. Keep in mind NONE of the rust converters that you wipe on and wipe off will fix the rust at the bottom of a pit. No matter what they try to tell you on the label. None of the epoxy primers are compatible with any acid coating. Unless you are assured the PH at the surface is not too acid. The acid will prevent the epoxy from curing and it will remain soft. The pickle X has a lower level of acid then straight phosphoric acids so it may be a better choice. I have not personally had any paint peel because of the Pickle X. BUT I have not had paint on the parts long enough to know if it screwed me up or not. I will tell you how well it works in 10 years when I know for sure. Now let me qualify my use of Pickle X. I was drawn to the product because it is a wipe on, let set for 2 minutes, and wipe clean product. When I set up to sand blast I needed to get all my parts done. I anticipated that I would not be able to do the metal work on some parts for a while and did not want to epoxy and the mess up the paint doing repairs. The pickle X is salt spray tested and is a good way to protect the metal until I could do metal work. I scuff the surface well before I paint the epoxy. As with any product, read the tech sheets and manuals. Quite often I see advice given about surface prep that goes against the recommendations of the manufacturers tech sheets. I am sure there are many failures from not following directions.