The Ford Barn

Roger V · 10-12-2011, 10:31 PM

Does anyone know of a source for pre-cut shims (donut shaped) to go behind the bearing races in the axle housings. To be clear, I'm NOT talking about the tapered shim for the end of the axle shaft. Also, I'm NOT referring to the available shim that goes behind the bearings on the carrier. Ideally, they would be 3.125 OD x 2.75 ID inches or near. (.005 or .010 inch thickness would be good.) I've Googled to no avail. Also, my local commercial truck garage hasn't had any luck. TIA, Roger

Tom Wesenberg · 10-13-2011, 06:17 AM

Shims behind the bearing on the carrier should have the same effect as shims behind the outer race in the axle tube. Since you are asking for shims, I assume you have the gasket thickness down to the minimum and still have too much side play in the carrier. I had to cut my own shims for the last rearend I worked on.

pat in Santa Cruz · 10-13-2011, 08:28 AM

Toms right about the carrier shims having the same effect, but when there is a lot to take up, I cut some of my own for the race shims to spread the shim around more evenly. Some of the earlier housings had a thicker race and those will need more shim, so I place one behind the modern races. In most cases the play is due to a spun bearing having machined off the carrier, and the ready-made shims are designed for that.

Roger V · 10-13-2011, 08:44 AM

Obviously, I realize the carrier shim would do the same thing which is why I stated they were available. I have cut shims from shim stock for the races in the past which is a real pain on the ID so wanted to see if pre-cut were available. I wasn't going to go into an explanation of "why" but it's easier/safer to pull a race than risk damaging a bearing. Also, there was a slight spin which leaves a radius in the corner that the carrier shim may ride on or back to trimming and hoping it centers.

BRENT in 10-uh-C · 10-13-2011, 08:45 AM

Twice I have started to answer this and got side-tracked because I did not have the time to find my pictures to illustrate my point on how we do it but the jest is that we no longer use shims there. Since we are already restoring the housing (by installing a new hub bearing sleeve on the opposite end) to compensate for paint mil thickness on the backing plate, and for a worn hub taper (which causes the drum to rub on the brake housing plate), we usually take .004" - .006" off of the mounting surface where the brake housing (backing) plate bolts onto the axle housing in the lathe. We also take .010" - .015" off of the gasket surface area where the differential housing surface meets the housing tube flange. This pays huge dividends in stopping axle leaks and adjusting differential carrier bearing preload.

Now the next question is, how do y'all compensate for worn Differential (Spider) gears? This would be the "play" between the thrust surface on the axle shaft and the axle gear to the differential gears allowing the axle shaft to move horizontally in & out of the housing. Y'all tell me how you deal with it and then I will tell you we are dealing with it.

BRENT in 10-uh-C · 10-13-2011, 08:50 AM

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

Roger, the way we cut the internal hole in the shim was to start by using .010" Brass shim stock and shear it into four square pieces. Stack them and nail those pieces in each corner to a board and then use a 2½" holesaw to make the internal hole. Then use the bearing cup as a guide and scribe around the perimeter to mark the outter circle. We used a Beverly Shear to make ours but a good set of Weis snips will work adequately cutting the outside since you really only need a few.

I trust you see why I think my process in #5 is the better way for us.

Roger V · 10-13-2011, 09:18 AM

Brent, relative to the question on horizontal movement on the axle shaft, I thought "excess" came from wear on the end of the axle against the spider center and wear on the back side of the axle gear against the inside of the carrier. I suppose any solution is using parts with minimal wear. Welding, machining, and heat treat would be a solution but expensive. Most of us probably do nothing.

I like your solution to not using shims but you have the equipment.

Thanks for your idea on making shims. I have steel shim stock which would be more difficult than brass, therefore I need to get brass.

BTW, how did you end up with your Hershey list?

d.j. moordigian · 10-13-2011, 10:25 AM

Mc Master-Carr has shims that are Metric,...70 X 90...that would be...2.7559" X
3.5433".....close

RockHillWill · 10-13-2011, 03:02 PM

gather a small crowd of guys, bolt together 10-12 pieces of shim stock between two pieces of 1/8" steel plate, or even plastic, and drop it off at the water jet guy and come back after lunch.

just a thought

Marco Tahtaras · 10-13-2011, 03:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roger V

Brent, relative to the question on horizontal movement on the axle shaft, I thought "excess" came from wear on the end of the axle against the spider center and wear on the back side of the axle gear against the inside of the carrier. I suppose any solution is using parts with minimal wear. Welding, machining, and heat treat would be a solution but expensive. Most of us probably do nothing.

From some of the carriers I've seen much of the axle end play comes from the spider gears wearing against the carrier and moving outboard. Since the gears are tapered they become smaller as they move outboard.

Since I never have to resurrect badly worn parts I haven't needed a solution although there are numerous possibilities.

BILL WILLIAMSON · 10-14-2011, 10:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roger V

Does anyone know of a source for pre-cut shims (donut shaped) to go behind the bearing races in the axle housings. To be clear, I'm NOT talking about the tapered shim for the end of the axle shaft. Also, I'm NOT referring to the available shim that goes behind the bearings on the carrier. Ideally, they would be 3.125 OD x 2.75 ID inches or near. (.005 or .010 inch thickness would be good.) I've Googled to no avail. Also, my local commercial truck garage hasn't had any luck. TIA, Roger

They're listed in Bert's autumn 2011 catalog on page 22.
Part # A-4222-S $.95 each.

Craig Lewis · 10-14-2011, 11:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BILL WILLIAMSON

They're listed in Bert's autumn 2011 catalog on page 22.
Part # A-4222-S $.95 each.

,,,I'll go out on a limb and vote Bill for best answer

Rowdy · 10-15-2011, 06:37 AM

I bought mine from a cemitruck parts dealer. I have no idea who made them, but they were very inexpensive. I have enough left for about 3 more rearend rebuilds. Rod

10-12-2011, 10:31 PM	#1
Roger V Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Michigan Posts: 1,593	Shims for axle housing bearing races Does anyone know of a source for pre-cut shims (donut shaped) to go behind the bearing races in the axle housings. To be clear, I'm NOT talking about the tapered shim for the end of the axle shaft. Also, I'm NOT referring to the available shim that goes behind the bearings on the carrier. Ideally, they would be 3.125 OD x 2.75 ID inches or near. (.005 or .010 inch thickness would be good.) I've Googled to no avail. Also, my local commercial truck garage hasn't had any luck. TIA, Roger

10-13-2011, 06:17 AM	#2
Tom Wesenberg Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Mpls, MN Posts: 27,582	Re: Shims for axle housing bearing races Shims behind the bearing on the carrier should have the same effect as shims behind the outer race in the axle tube. Since you are asking for shims, I assume you have the gasket thickness down to the minimum and still have too much side play in the carrier. I had to cut my own shims for the last rearend I worked on.

10-13-2011, 08:28 AM	#3
pat in Santa Cruz Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: santa cruz, calif Posts: 2,011	Re: Shims for axle housing bearing races Toms right about the carrier shims having the same effect, but when there is a lot to take up, I cut some of my own for the race shims to spread the shim around more evenly. Some of the earlier housings had a thicker race and those will need more shim, so I place one behind the modern races. In most cases the play is due to a spun bearing having machined off the carrier, and the ready-made shims are designed for that.

10-13-2011, 08:44 AM	#4
Roger V Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Michigan Posts: 1,593	Re: Shims for axle housing bearing races Obviously, I realize the carrier shim would do the same thing which is why I stated they were available. I have cut shims from shim stock for the races in the past which is a real pain on the ID so wanted to see if pre-cut were available. I wasn't going to go into an explanation of "why" but it's easier/safer to pull a race than risk damaging a bearing. Also, there was a slight spin which leaves a radius in the corner that the carrier shim may ride on or back to trimming and hoping it centers.

10-13-2011, 08:50 AM	#6
BRENT in 10-uh-C Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Eastern Tennessee Posts: 11,972	Re: Shims for axle housing bearing races Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) Roger, the way we cut the internal hole in the shim was to start by using .010" Brass shim stock and shear it into four square pieces. Stack them and nail those pieces in each corner to a board and then use a 2½" holesaw to make the internal hole. Then use the bearing cup as a guide and scribe around the perimeter to mark the outter circle. We used a Beverly Shear to make ours but a good set of Weis snips will work adequately cutting the outside since you really only need a few. I trust you see why I think my process in #5 is the better way for us. __________________ . BRENT in 10-uh-C . www.model-a-ford.com ...(...Finally Updated!! ) .

10-13-2011, 08:45 AM	#5
BRENT in 10-uh-C Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Eastern Tennessee Posts: 11,972	Re: Shims for axle housing bearing races Twice I have started to answer this and got side-tracked because I did not have the time to find my pictures to illustrate my point on how we do it but the jest is that we no longer use shims there. Since we are already restoring the housing (by installing a new hub bearing sleeve on the opposite end) to compensate for paint mil thickness on the backing plate, and for a worn hub taper (which causes the drum to rub on the brake housing plate), we usually take .004" - .006" off of the mounting surface where the brake housing (backing) plate bolts onto the axle housing in the lathe. We also take .010" - .015" off of the gasket surface area where the differential housing surface meets the housing tube flange. This pays huge dividends in stopping axle leaks and adjusting differential carrier bearing preload. Now the next question is, how do y'all compensate for worn Differential (Spider) gears? This would be the "play" between the thrust surface on the axle shaft and the axle gear to the differential gears allowing the axle shaft to move horizontally in & out of the housing. Y'all tell me how you deal with it and then I will tell you we are dealing with it. __________________ . BRENT in 10-uh-C . www.model-a-ford.com ...(...Finally Updated!! ) .

10-13-2011, 09:18 AM	#7
Roger V Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Michigan Posts: 1,593	Re: Shims for axle housing bearing races Brent, relative to the question on horizontal movement on the axle shaft, I thought "excess" came from wear on the end of the axle against the spider center and wear on the back side of the axle gear against the inside of the carrier. I suppose any solution is using parts with minimal wear. Welding, machining, and heat treat would be a solution but expensive. Most of us probably do nothing. I like your solution to not using shims but you have the equipment. Thanks for your idea on making shims. I have steel shim stock which would be more difficult than brass, therefore I need to get brass. BTW, how did you end up with your Hershey list?

10-13-2011, 10:25 AM	#8
d.j. moordigian Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Fresno, Ca. Posts: 3,636	Re: Shims for axle housing bearing races Mc Master-Carr has shims that are Metric,...70 X 90...that would be...2.7559" X 3.5433".....close

10-13-2011, 03:02 PM	#9
RockHillWill Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Rock Hill, S.C. Posts: 985	Re: Shims for axle housing bearing races gather a small crowd of guys, bolt together 10-12 pieces of shim stock between two pieces of 1/8" steel plate, or even plastic, and drop it off at the water jet guy and come back after lunch. just a thought __________________ Uncle Bud says "too soon old, too late smart!"

10-15-2011, 06:37 AM	#13
Rowdy BANNED Join Date: May 2010 Location: Gothenburg Nebraska Just off I-80 Posts: 4,893	Re: Shims for axle housing bearing races I bought mine from a cemitruck parts dealer. I have no idea who made them, but they were very inexpensive. I have enough left for about 3 more rearend rebuilds. Rod __________________ Do the RIGHT thing - Support the H.A.M.B. Alliance!!!!