WhaddaYaKnow? 65lbs breaks water necks!

[Jason in TX]

Putting the Brumfield head back on with the 7014 Felpro gasket. I get to 55 lbs, and then get the engine nice and warm.

Go for my final 65 lbs and pop!

Now, I noticed that there wasn't a gasket under the water neck before, but I had a gasket so I decided to put one on. Is that where I messed up?

Looks like the neck is a repop aluminum one. I'll track down a cast iron one and probably not put a neck gasket... just a little permatex.

[Jerry Parr WI]

Originally Posted by Jason in TX

Putting the Brumfield head back on with the 7014 Felpro gasket. I get to 55 lbs, and then get the engine nice and warm.

Go for my final 65 lbs and pop!

Now, I noticed that there wasn't a gasket under the water neck before, but I had a gasket so I decided to put one on. Is that where I messed up?

Looks like the neck is a repop aluminum one. I'll track down a cast iron one and probably not put a neck gasket... just a little permatex.

Bet the one you used was a paper gasket. 65lbs doesn't break necks except when combined with paper gaskets.

[Jason in TX]

Yeah. it was kind of a cardboard kind of material. same as the carb gasket...

hmmm.. permatex ok?

[Milton]

Originally Posted by Jason in TX

Now, I noticed that there wasn't a gasket under the water neck before, but I had a gasket so I decided to put one on. Is that where I messed up?

Looks like the neck is a repop aluminum one. I'll track down a cast iron one and probably not put a neck gasket... just a little permatex.

Yep, you messed up, just like I did. A touch of silicone and I have had NO leakage. Naturally I outdid your mess up. I bragged to the parts supplier that I never broke one since 1955, uh huh, back in the store the same stinking day to get a new water neck. Ah well, no fool like an old fool, they say. And I did it with 55 ftlbs!

[Gord. B by the bay]

Silicone is all you need no leak no damage Gord. B by the bay

[Tom Endy]

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I have put a bunch of them on at 65 ft. lbs. and have never broken one. These were all the original types. I use a copper gasket with gasket sealer as used with the head gasket.

Another thing I do is I put a paper match on the outboard side of each bolt. This has always struck me as a myth or an old wives tale past down from days of old. However, as I said, I have never broken one.

Tom Endy

[bdentremont]

Originally Posted by Jason in TX

Now, I noticed that there wasn't a gasket under the water neck before, but I had a gasket so I decided to put one on. Is that where I messed up?

Someone caught me at a club meeting the night before I was about to do the same and assured me that using that gasket was a bad idea "unless you have a second water neck". I guess he was right.

[Tom Wesenberg]

I agree with Tom Endy. I broke a water neck years ago when I used a paper gasket, but with no gasket, or with the copper gasket, I've done several and haven't had a problem with 55 to 65 lbs torque.

[Logan]

Just a Thought i would say something. Ron Kelly a very respectable engine builder told me not to torque a head over 60 pounds. After 60 you start pulling the deck of the block up instead of the head down.
Just thought i would throw that in for consideration.

[Jason in TX]

65 does seem really tight. I can see that there could be some metal movement. Thanks Logan.

When we surfaced the head, you could see on the first pass where the holes the studs went through were "stretched" down toward the block. I'm talking .01 of an inch, but the metal does move and stretch.

[kp]

So far the paper match has worked for me .But I havent put on very many.

[TinCup]

Beenthere done that. A little permatex and that's all you need. I have also used the match trick with a copper gasket but that was on a standard head. How's the heat in Dallas?

[Jason in TX]

Wouldn't the match raise the outside of the neck holes, putting uneven pressure when the bolt is drawn down? I would think that would cause the neck to possibly snap also. Hmm...

Oh, it's hot! Coming from beautiful San Diego where the high is 75 degrees to 102 degrees makes getting out in the garage to work on this car less than tempting!

But we don't have it as bad as you. I see the weather says a high of 106 today for Oklahoma City!! Wow! Stay cool and eat lots of ice cream!

[Milton]

Originally Posted by Tom Endy

I have put a bunch of them on at 65 ft. lbs. and have never broken one.

Another thing I do is I put a paper match on the outboard side of each bolt. This has always struck me as a myth or an old wives tale past down from days of old. However, as I said, I have never broken one.

Tom Endy

Either you didn't learn much from my post above or, you just enjoy tempting fate.

I've heard of the match trick but never tried it. Are those type of matches still made?

Messing with fate twice in one post!

[HillbillyTim]

Been there, done that too. I now leave out the gasket and use Permatex only.

Tim

[700rpm]

The match trick works. I don't know why, I just know it does.

[Tom Wesenberg]

Originally Posted by 700rpm

The match trick works. I don't know why, I just know it does.

Since there is much more gasket on the inside of the bolt than on the outer ends, the outer ends can compress down much easier, and it takes very little difference in compression to snap cast iron. The paper match builds up the outer ends so they don't compress down as much, so the overall comression is more even.

[Jason in TX]

So use the paper match only with a gasket? I was thinking people were saying to use the match when using permatex. I guess not there.

I got another neck from a Model A friend today and he gave me some paper gasket material that is very very thin, like a brown paper bag, to cut my own gasket. I may just use permatex so I don't break another, but he said he always uses this thin paper stuff.

[700rpm]

Thanks Tom!

[Bruce Adams]

Sixty-Five pounds worked for me after heating it up and then letting it cool to 'warm" as I was instructed.
Neck is OK, thought I tightened it more slowly than other nuts.