Did the A's steer easy when they were new?

[fordman]

Did the A's steer easy when they were new?

My 1930 sedan is difficult to steer...if I were to rebuild the sector, etc, what is the best I could hope for?

thank you,

fordman

[Franchise_24]

What is the problem when you say its hard to steer? Do you mean there is alot of play on the steering wheel? or that it just doesn't like to turn easily?

[gweilbaker]

Yes, extremely so.

The trick is are you use to manual steering?

The chariot must be in ever most slight movement forward or backwards before cranking the wheel. Cranking the wheel whilst standing still is like a pizza face geek scoring a date with a beautiful babe, ain't gonna happen.

GW

[Kevin in NJ]

The first question is, What kind of lubricant is in the box?

More than one box is full of grease and would suddenly steer much easier with the correct oil.

The car should steer fairly easy when moving. When not moving you should expect it to be fairly hard to steer.

[pat in Santa Cruz]

if grease in the steering box is not causing the problem, another common cause of stiff steering is improperly shimmed spindle bearings. The replacement bearings are too thin and must be shimmed to the axle. If they are not, the weight of the car bears on the edges of the seal cups below the king pin, not the spindle bearing on top. To test it, see if you can rotate the bearing with the wheels on the ground. Properly set up, the bearings should rotate when the car is on stands with the wheels free, and not with the wheels on the ground. If the bearings turn by hand with weight on them, they need to be shimmed.

Worn spindle balls also contribute to hard steering. If they are rough they create friction against the cups, and if they are egg shaped more than about .020, they will compress the tie rod and drag link end springs as you steer, adding to the effort required.

yet another thing I have seen is the novice who tries to tighten the slop in the worm/sector gears by tightening the forward and back lash in the worm gear. The obvious locknut and bolt atop the box adjusts the fore and aft lash. If should be just to the point of no slop, not tight. But not knowing that, many folks in the past have tightened it so far that the bearing races crack, creating drag on the worm gear. You can feel bad races as a crunching or grinding feel in the steering as you turn the wheel back and forth. Not much you can do about that but re build the box. A slight loosening of that bolt should create back and forth movement if you grab the steering wheel and push/pull it. If it takes a lot of loosening to get play in it, then someone tightened it too far once. It should be set just at the point where the play stops, and no further.

Less common is too little caster. On a stock Ford with original radius ball cups this is unusual, but I have seen some mighty weird radius ball hangers. One I saw last week had the ball stuffed up inside the hole in the flywheel housing with the upper cap inverted and tightened hard against the bottom of the ball with no springs or spacers. That would have eliminated the caster.

[glenn in camino]

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Many times hard steering is caused by worn spindles not allowing the spindle bearings to work properly.

[Mike V. Florida]

Originally Posted by fordman

Did the A's steer easy when they were new?

Yes very much so. Ask anyone that has dirven a low milage original and thy will tell you the steering was easy.

Can you do this today? Also yes. EVERYTHING that moves when the steering wheel is turned need to be restored as new, round balls, adjusted mesh, clean smooth retainers, king pins, and on and on.

[48Ratfink]

Did the A's steer easy when they were new?

They steered just like new!!!
Sorry, I just couldn't help it!

[Special Coupe Frank]

I guess the original question could be re-phrased " HOW easy was it to steer ( turn the steering wheel ) in an original Model A ?"

Kind of difficult to quantify...

The MoToR's shop manuals from the 1940's and '50's describe using a spring scale and hook on a steering-wheel spoke at the rim to determine force needed to turn the wheel when setting-up and adjusting a gear-box...

Perhaps a crude metric could go like this: (assuming the vehicle is moving )

"one finger" (very easy - like early 1960's Chrysler over-boosted power-steering)

"two fingers"

"four fingers"

( The above refer to the pressure of the fingers being applied to the side of a steering-wheel spoke, at the rim of the wheel)

"whole hand gripping rim of wheel" ( Moderately stiff )

"two hands, going hand-over-hand" ( stiff )

"two-hands doing "push-pull" ( very stiff )

Could someone with a properly functioning Model A steering gear ( stock length pitman arm, steel ball seats, stock tires ) define steering effort in one of the terms above ?

[Kurt in NJ]

Using Franks ratings --normal driving --2-4 fingers

Whipping around corner making tires protest --moderatly stiff

Parking --stiff

turning without movement --very stiff

dry steering gear ---I wonder if I can turn before I run into ---

My steering gear --Argentine worm ,usa sector (late 60s production) --needle bearing for sector --now I don't think it makes much difference from properly fitted bushings but that was the "latest,and greatest" in 1969, last major adjustment in 1986, still less than 3/4" play in wheel, Mobile 636 for lube.

I do need to fix my loose kingpins, and probably .020 wear on steering balls.

[fordman]

WOW! what a wealth of information! My Model A is in need of maintenance and TLC. I had suspected the steering needed quite a few new parts; this investigation will take place when it can be worked into my schedule.

my question was not well worded but I have much info to help my investigation.

i have a couple of EFV8's and my recollection of my youth A did not seem to be this difficult. My difficulty would be best described as "one fist fullpulling down and one fistfull pushing up".

you are a wealth of information

thank you,

fordman

[pat in Santa Cruz]

Originally Posted by fordman

i have a couple of EFV8's and my recollection of my youth A did not seem to be this difficult. My difficulty would be best described as "one fist fullpulling down and one fistfull pushing up".

fordman

the 32 steering was almost identical to an A, with the exception of a shorter pittman arm, if you have driven one to compare with. But with the heavy V8 block up front, they do steer hard until 37, when Ford came out with a roller sector. Your A sounds very tough to steer. If you inspect and address every aspect of the steering, it will drive pretty easy when you are finished. Ford promoted the easy steering of the Model A as one of its primary features.

[1931 flamingo]

On mine, when i acquired it last year, it steered hard, filled box with the 600w available from vendors, most of it leaked out. I put in the heavy gear lube from Pennrite, no leaks and steers relatively easy (I think) now.
Paul in CT

[Special Coupe Frank]

Mine is in the "two-hands / push-pull" category - very stiff.

On a straight road, I can drive "one-hand", but for major curves or 90* turns, I definitely need both hands.

The pitman shaft bushings are shot, and goodness knows what the worm and sector look like; it also feels as though the steering shaft may be bent...

Two of this winter's projects will be rebuilding the steering gear ( needle bearings in the sector housing for longevity) and rebuilding the tranny.

[RHD]

I once drove a very low mileage 29 Phaeton with a 7 tooth box. The box had never been touched and I couldn't get over how well it steered. I have never steered better Model 'A', ever, even an 'A' with a 2 tooth.

[Marco Tahtaras]

I've been somewhat reluctant to describe mine in the Roadster due to the fact that it's all NOS parts and that is not a solution for the masses. Essentially it's easy one hand steering except that you can't turn the wheel more than about 3/4 turn without repositioning your hand. When I first finished the car I attempted a "U" turn in our Cul-de-sac with just my forefinger at the outer corner of a spoke so I could do more than a full revolution without removing my hand. It was doable but difficult. If I had a rotating knob at the rim of the steering wheel one hand would be enough.

[Lawrie]

ALSO tyre pressures need to be right.Lawrie

[Thom IV]

My 31 was a llittle stiff steering. I installed a shortened pitman arm and adjusted the slop out by following Les Andrews instructions in his mechanics handbook. It steers
very good now. Could easily drive it with one hand if I desired, but use two.

[Mike/Nebraska]

I also installed a shortened Pitman Arm and an EZ Steer kit from Snyders and mine turns easily.