Removal of breather (59a) options?

[Chopshop13]

Hi, sorry to ask such a novice question and the answer seems pretty obvious but I'd like to know peoples solutions.
On my new build its 59 a which is being stroked and bored, pretty hot motor, what I want to know is if I put a plate on the inlet manifold covering the mechanical fuel pump and breather stand, Howell will the crankcase be best ventilated? To use a PCV valve? And if so where to plumb that in? Just drilling tap hole in the side of the manifold? What do you believe the advantages of a PCV valve are overusing a crankcase breather? where might I buy a stand which eliminates the fuel pump and has only the breather?

[Bluebell]

Even with the PCV valve you still need somewhere for the crasnkcase to breath from. It's got to be able to suck (and blow) for the flow through the pcv valve to happen. You can make up a small plate to cover where the mechanical fuel pump was. there are probably aftermarket (hot rod) breathers to fit, without the pump mount, but I can't help with that.

[Chopshop13]

Yes well I am looking at plating off the manifold fuel pump area, so my question is is a PCV valve enough for the crankcase to breathe or do I need an independent breather, with an air filter on it?
I think I have found such a product on flathead Jack's website I'm just not sure if it is necessary?

[JWL]

Your 59A oil pan has a detail at the front with an open slit to the atmosphere which serves as the road draft discharge. Using a PCV, and assuming it is working, will result in unfiltered dirty, dusty air being sucked into the engine unless this is corrected.

One of the better 59A PCV connection points is at that pan detail after the slit is sealed to be air tight. The stock breather is then left in place.

A PCV without any breather will not have sufficient capacity nor function to prevent unwanted crankcase pressure.

[Chopshop13]

What 59A would come without such detail? mine is a 59A, i just cant picture there being one when i was panel beating the dents from the thing. i guess ill have to relook at it.
Anybody here have a picture of such pcv setup?

[Ross6860]

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It's at the front corner of the oil pan. Looks like a little sheet metal can, maybe an inchand a half long.

I have the pan off a 59A that I'm rebuilding, but it's not at the house. I'll try and get you a photo tomorrow.

Van Pelt's may have a good drawing showing it. Check their web site out. Tons of good info.

[Bluebell]

These are off a WWII military spec motor.
there isa separate waifer that it goes into between the carb and the manifold.

[Chopshop13]

On second thought, yes I do have the road draft slot in my sump, it's only been a few months since I looked at it. I'll go with the recommended set up, my question was do I need a dedicated breather at the manifold and I see the answer is yes. There are companies selling block off plates for the manifold and I have seen engines run without the breather but I guess they're venting their sump elsewhere.

[Chopshop13]

Christ just remembered, C69A, canadian and 69? will this make any difference?

[flatheadfan]

First, your engine needs to breathe! Ford's original early breathing design (since '35) was to suck (or fan force), air through the top oil filler cap and have it circulate inside the engine and eventually get sucked out via the oil pan slit located in the right front of the oil pan (see picture), with vehicle motion. When you go to a PVC system you will be reversing the flow and the oil pan slit will be working as an air intake and as has been pointed out, will be gathering road debris and sucking them into the engine.

There have been several options used to rid internal blow-by and reduce engine smells from working into the passenger compartment. One early method was to attach a flex tube from the oil filter cap and funnel it up to the air filter and eventually into the combustion chamber (enclosed picture). This also required a sealing of the oil pan slit. It sort of worked.

What I did on a '36 LB engine was similar to the early attempts only with a PCV installed to prevent back flowing. To accomplish this I, 1) sealed off the oil pan slit with a piece of sheet metal. 2) drilled a hole in the intake manifold and installed a brass fitting which I attached a PCV valve. 3) Connected the valve to a previously modified air filter with a hose connection fitting for the PCV hose. Now the internal air flow is in via the oil filter cap down to the crankcase and then up to the valve gallery and then sucked out by the entering air of the air filter.

I have seen some similar applications with the PCV under the intake manifold which seems like potentially a lot of extra work to check or if needed to replace the PCV valve. I have also seen several applications where the crankcase fumes have been ducted in under the carburetor rather than via of the air filter. It seems this routing would negatively effect carburetor settings and loose the benefit of air filtration. But, I am open to hear explanations on why this routing is not a problem.

At any rate, things seem to be working without any problem on the engine. Hope this helps

Tom

[Chopshop13]

Originally Posted by JWL

...
One of the better 59A PCV connection points is at that pan detail after the slit is sealed to be air tight. The stock breather is then left in place.

A PCV without any breather will not have sufficient capacity nor function to prevent unwanted crankcase pressure.

JWL, from what I've read in other threads is agreeable to this, that and plumbing the PCV to the lifter Gallery,as illustrated in the World War II set up above. has been a lot of discussion on this and I have read the threads but there is so much contradicting opinion and sometimes contradicting statements of fact that it's boggling. Granted that I need to keep a filtered breather at the fuel pump stand I imagine that the PCV would basically suck fresh air down on the breather, along the gallery and straight up the PCV valve. is that the reason for plumbing the PCV to the crankcase? I don't know the differences between the block configurations, and that is where a lot of the contradiction lies. anybody care to comment?

[Jack E/NJ]

Chopshop13>>>pretty hot motor>>>

If you're gonna stand on the pedal a lot, a valve won't do much. You should have a baffled breather somewhere. My setup has a large diameter tube, filled with a stainless steel scouring mesh, running from the pump stand hole to the air cleaner canister to entrain crankcase fumes/blowby. I wrap the pan vent with fine screen to keep out rocks, boulders and small animals. 8^)

Jack E/NJ

[Bluebell]

This is a basic run down.
As has been stated the air was drawn into the earlier engine through the breather. (BTW this initially had no filtering capability) and with the fumes went out to the atmosphere via the draft tube. (see flatheadsfan's photo)
When the PCV valve was introduced the draft tube was done away with. The filtered air was drawn in through the breather, and was wholely put through the engine via the pcv valve into the manifold, and out through the exhaust.
The valve is such that it is open when the manifold vacuum (negative pressure) is high. The carb is factory set to allow for this, so the fuel requirement is slightly less at idle. When the throttle is opened the manifold vacuum drops off, and the full, unpolluted fuel air mix, is drawn into the engine when it is needed the most.
I hope that cleared things up a bit.

[Andy]

Originally Posted by JWL

Your 59A oil pan has a detail at the front with an open slit to the atmosphere which serves as the road draft discharge. Using a PCV, and assuming it is working, will result in unfiltered dirty, dusty air being sucked into the engine unless this is corrected.

One of the better 59A PCV connection points is at that pan detail after the slit is sealed to be air tight. The stock breather is then left in place.

A PCV without any breather will not have sufficient capacity nor function to prevent unwanted crankcase pressure.

I put a freeze plug in the stand pipe in my 59A valley to block off the road draft opening on the pan. I am running a PVC from the manifold to below the carb, I have a lawn mower filter above the fuel pump. I appears to work great and is not ugly except maybe the extra filter.

[ford38v8]

Originally Posted by Jack E/NJ

Chopshop13>>>pretty hot motor>>>

...My setup has a large diameter tube, filled with a stainless steel scouring mesh, running from the pump stand hole to the air cleaner...I wrap the pan vent with fine screen to keep out rocks, boulders and small animals. 8^)
Jack E/NJ

Jack, you might consider changing out your steel mesh for copper mesh, which presents no danger to your engine's moving parts.

[Jack E/NJ]

ford38v8>>>changing out your steel mesh for copper mesh>>>

Good point. Thanks!

Jack E/NJ

[Chris Nelson]

It seems that everyone has a differant answer to this problem, so I'll throw in mine. I have a built 59AB. I blocked off the pan vent with a piece of SS shim stock. I have an 8BA dual carb manifold, so the plumbing was easy. The PCV valve fits in the draft tube hole of the manifold and feeds directly to the manifold under the carbs. The engine has the ability to breathe through the oil filler tube and the pcv valve breathes from the valve gallery. Works great in both of my flatheads. I use a Borg Warner #382 PCV valve and a late model Ford Grommet in the draft tube hole.
The #382 PCV Valve Specs are;
Closed at idle; 16-18" HG
Floats at 8-10" HG
Open at 1-6" HG

[Bruce Lancaster]

On the Canadian Ford with the factory PCV as shown, there were just two modifications: The slot in the pans was sealed, and the breather at rear of the manifold got a bigger and more serious air cleaner in place of the woven mesh. On the originals, this filter was actually an oil bath type about two or 3 times the bulk of the normal small filter.
As shown in the pics the PCV draws the air out from just above the vertical stack in the front of the valley.
You don't want to close off the original breather area, which is the inlet for the air flow in both the normal system and the PCV equipped one. If you need to get rid of the stack for clearance reasons, run a fairly big hose from your block-off plate up to a common circle track car breather can which would allow you to have your filter up on the firewall.

[mumpsimus]

Do you recall the size of the freeze plug to seal the stand pipe?

Originally Posted by Andy

I put a freeze plug in the stand pipe in my 59A valley to block off the road draft opening on the pan. I am running a PVC from the manifold to below the carb, I have a lawn mower filter above the fuel pump. I appears to work great and is not ugly except maybe the extra filter.

[JSeery]

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