Early '28 pickup assembly questions

[HHR&R]

I bought a complete unassembled Brookville rpu body to match my chassis and title, I'm assembling it to be as close to an original body as possible despite building a hot rod with some major changes.
So I'm gonna need some infos on some original assembly details, I looked at hundreds of pictures for stuff like number and placement of rivets, but not everything is visible on assembled cars or bare body pictures that people post on their for sale ads.
It's an early '28 frame that will be riveted back, most likely unboxed and an august '28 stamped gas tank. I wan't to keep the early '28 theme on the body assembly.


First question is were all cab rivets waffled on their back side?


I'm missing the frame bracket for the E-brake on the left side of the frame, does anybody have a picture of it to see if I can reproduce one or know what I'm looking for if I need to find one? I didn't see anybody repoping them.


For the bed I don't know what's missing on the front mounting point and couldn't find any picture showing this part from above or under how does it attach to the frame?:
Although I can't remember if I used the bolt hole to bolt my X member I'm pretty sure there's some kind of spacer.


Those are my first questions, more will come as I progress.
For now I'm mocking up everything with metric nuts and bolts, once everything will be where it needs to, they will all be replaced with rivets and imperial hardware (which is a giant pain to find in the EU especially at a reasonnable cost).

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Yes, all rivets were originally waffled.

The stamped date on the gas tank definitely removes the thought of it built to replicate an E28. Being that you are building it as a hot rod, then that is probably a moot point anyway.

I would contact Steve Becker at Bert's Model A to see if he can provide you with the emergency brake brackets & hardware.

I don't think you will be happy with a crossmember that is bolted instead of a rivet due to the flexibility an open cab pick-up has.

[HHR&R]

Thanks.
It's only bolted for the mock up, it's gonna be riveted, I already have the rivets and tool for that. But not the waffle for the body.
A Hot rod doesn't mean it doesn't have to look somewhat factory in places that are unmodified.


I made a mistake it's end of July 1928.
I know the stamp date is not what you think would be an early 28 but the sedan from witch it came had the ears on the front crossmember, left hand hand brake and bolted on drive shaft, but a black steering wheel. Being an export I suppose it could be a left over part bin special.
While I was doing some research I came accross multiple mid 1928 A sold brand new in mid 1929 and one in 1932. Fords were not selling like hot cup cakes in France, it wasn't rare for Fords to sell new almost a year after YOM.
So weird stuff in the manufacturing doesn't surprise me like the metric hex head bolts with imperial threads I found when I tore down the sedan.

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Originally Posted by HHR&R

Thanks.
It's only bolted for the mock up, it's gonna be riveted, I already have the rivets and tool for that. But not the waffle for the body.
A Hot rod doesn't mean it doesn't have to look somewhat factory in places that are unmodified.


I made a mistake it's end of July 1928.
I know the stamp date is not what you think would be an early 28 but the sedan from witch it came had the ears on the front crossmember, left hand hand brake and bolted on drive shaft, but a black steering wheel. Being an export I suppose it could be a left over part bin special.


While I was doing some research I came across multiple mid 1928 A sold brand new in mid 1929 and one in 1932. Fords were not selling like hot cup cakes in France, it wasn't rare for Fords to sell new almost a year after YOM.
So weird stuff in the manufacturing doesn't surprise me like the metric hex head bolts with imperial threads I found when I tore down the sedan.

Most rivets are 3/16 whereas most people bolt them together with 1/4". My experiences are that you can't get a good rivet job using a 3/16" rivet inside of a 1/4" hole.

Yes, I agree that a 'hot rod' can be however you wish it to be.

Wish regard to the Left Hand Brake Lever, we typically think of June of '28 as when the system was changed over and the Hand Brake Lever moved to the transmission however there is a 3 month grace period which August certainly fits within that grace period. The solid front motor mount was changed around November of '28, -so again, that fits within the August test date.

I highlighted in Red above about something you said. Many people have a misconception that Ford used 'left-over' parts on assemblies. Based on research studying prints and reading Foreman's Logs, that really isn't the way that it was handled. Ford engineers knew when they gave the Foremen job tickets how many of each item they wanted produced. They knew where the items would be shipped to, whether the items was made for Branch Assembly or whether it was for a Depot, and which vehicle it was slated for during assembly. So even if the Engineers were introducing a revised item at several new Branches, they often allowed the stock of the existing item (an item before it was revised) to be used at other Branches.

[HHR&R]

Thanks, the Brookville body did come with 3/16" rivets for the body and I do the mock up with 5mm bolts. The bed came with 1/4" rivets and I'm mocking it up with 6mm bolts.
I do drill the holes with 3/16" and 1/4" drill bits to be as close as possible to the rivet size.
I drilled the chassis with an 8mm drill bit and will rivet it with 8mm rivets.


I should explain that I'm a bodyman and fabricator who's been working on cars for over 30 years, solely on ground up restoration/reconstruction of German, British and Italian cars for the last 15 years, before that 5 years in a famous hot rod shop and prior it was body and mostly frame jobs on high end European cars.
So I can be ass tight about some insignifiant stuff like the waffle on the rivets and I do take measurements of the placement of the rivets on my sedan body where both bodies are similar to duplicate them on the rpu. I know it's not important, but I can't help myself.


When I said the left over part bin special, what I wanted to say was it was probably one of the last assembled with the last remaining parts were used up, not something that was laying around forgotten then used up when they found it. (I do know a couple of car brands who did that even going to the extend of selling as brand new cars refurbished used models)

[meteorpete]

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

Originally Posted by HHR&R

I bought a complete unassembled Brookville rpu body to match my chassis and title, I'm assembling it to be as close to an original body as possible despite building a hot rod with some major changes.
So I'm gonna need some infos on some original assembly details, I looked at hundreds of pictures for stuff like number and placement of rivets, but not everything is visible on assembled cars or bare body pictures that people post on their for sale ads.
It's an early '28 frame that will be riveted back, most likely unboxed and an august '28 stamped gas tank. I wan't to keep the early '28 theme on the body assembly.


First question is were all cab rivets waffled on their back side?


I'm missing the frame bracket for the E-brake on the left side of the frame, does anybody have a picture of it to see if I can reproduce one or know what I'm looking for if I need to find one? I didn't see anybody repoping them.


For the bed I don't know what's missing on the front mounting point and couldn't find any picture showing this part from above or under how does it attach to the frame?:
Although I can't remember if I used the bolt hole to bolt my X member I'm pretty sure there's some kind of spacer.


Those are my first questions, more will come as I progress.
For now I'm mocking up everything with metric nuts and bolts, once everything will be where it needs to, they will all be replaced with rivets and imperial hardware (which is a giant pain to find in the EU especially at a reasonnable cost).

Here's a few photos. If you don't see what you need I have the brake in a box on my shelf at the moment and can take more photos, measurements, etc.

[HHR&R]

Thank you, that's exactly what I was looking for. That's not an easy part to reproduce and that might be more hours than what I'm willing to spend on this, I suppose the ratchet teeth are hardened for wear.

As Brent suggested, I'll try first with Bert's. At least I now know what the parts looks like.

[Bob C]

There is an early frame bracket on Ebay.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/14585018446...Bk9SR_Lk76GLZA

[HHR&R]

Thank you for the link, it's a viable option since I have no answer from Bert's.
Otherwise I'm gonna have to machine some parts, or abandon the idea of reusing the left side handbrake.
That's the problem of buying a car that was partially taken apart and whose owner passed.

[john charlton]

English ( Manchester ) production did not use waffle headed rivets and I suspect neither did France ( Asnierers) They used plain headed rivets . You can go very very original and build a French vehicle !!!

John in Suffolk County England .No weather today .

[LeonardS]

Originally Posted by HHR&R

Thank you for the link, it's a viable option since I have no answer from Bert's.
Otherwise I'm gonna have to machine some parts, or abandon the idea of reusing the left side handbrake.
That's the problem of buying a car that was partially taken apart and whose owner passed.

Did you call Bert’s or just email them? Phone calls work best with them.

[HHR&R]

I emailed them, calling is not very practical there's an 8 hours difference.
I missed the ebay auction, I guess the other bidder was using an auction sniper.

[HHR&R]

Originally Posted by john charlton

English ( Manchester ) production did not use waffle headed rivets and I suspect neither did France ( Asnierers) They used plain headed rivets . You can go very very original and build a French vehicle !!!

John in Suffolk County England .No weather today .

Asnière started producing or assembling cars in 1929 after completion of the manufacturing plant. I have no clue if early A's had been assembled in Bordeaux after the T.
My '28 doesn't have an Asnière tag like my '29.
As far as I know the AA was the first to have such a plaque with a different Vin than engine N° starting somewhere January 1929 with number 1000 I believe, then between May and July '29, I'm not sure, with number 3000 for the cars.
Probably because they started on the AA assembly first.
I couldn't confirm that prior to 05 or 07/29 model A's had nothing but a patent tag like the US models.


I need to clean some rivets on the '28 body to see what they look like.