The Ford Barn

sethkestenbaum · 06-15-2011, 06:02 PM

I am looking to replace a leaking gas line that is located after the cut off but before the firewall on a 1929 Phaeton. Any advice on proceedure? Any warnings? This is my first repair on my first Model A and I would like to "get it right" the first time. I am also hoping to avoid draining the tank on the garage floor.

Colorado Greg · 06-15-2011, 06:28 PM

It's a pretty straight forward repair as long as your shut off valve is working correctly. Do not use any teflon tape on the threads.

MAKE SURE YOU DISCONNECT THE BATTERY BEFORE MAKING THIS REPAIR!

You may want to check to see if you have a filter in the shut off valve. You can look into the tank and see if there is a filter there. If there is not one, you'll want to take out the shut off valve and install one. You'll need to drain the tank for this. This will filter the crap out of the tank before getting into the fuel lines. Strongly advised!

Leathernek · 06-15-2011, 06:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Colorado Greg

It's a pretty straight forward repair as long as your shut off valve is working correctly. Do not use any teflon tape on the threads.

Just curious, why not use the teflon tape?

Tom Wesenberg · 06-15-2011, 07:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leathernek

Just curious, why not use the teflon tape?

Because the flare does the sealing, not the threads. Gas can mess up the teflon and it can get into the carb.

I had to tin the flare on a 1939 coupe to get the fuel line to quit dripping. Most of the time just a good clean flare will seal just fine. Don't overtorque the nuts, just tight enough to seal and not come loose.

Tom Endy · 06-15-2011, 08:04 PM

You want to be sure to install a steel line, not a copper one. Any of the Model A suppliers can accomodate you. It will come already bent at the correct angles and with new ferrules on each end.

When you install the line at the carburetor end you need to correctly "set" the ferrule. One way to do it is to replece the filter screen at the front of the carburetor (Zenith) with a bolt of the same threads. Run the fuel line in until it touches the bolt, then tighten the nut. This will insure that the tip of the fuel line is not jammed up against the filter screen.

The ferrule is what seals off any fuel leak. it is tapered on each end and is made of brass. When the nut is tighened the ferrule will crush to match the taper in the nut and in the boss of the carburetor inlet and it will lock it to the fuel line. This is why you do not need to put sealer on the threads, as the threads to not seal off the fuel.

After repeated removals of the fuel line the ferrules get whacked out of shape and it may want to leak. Mil-spec would have you replace the ferrules each time you remove the fuel line. However, this is not practical.

I use one of my cars for testing rebuilt carburetors, so I have removed the fuel line countless times. I make it a practise to wrap both ferrules with white nylon tape. You must be careful not to get the tape over the end of the fuel line. Just wrap the ferrules. I wrap both ends each time I remove the fuel line. I will probably get cited by the Model A police for recommending such a practice, but it works for me.

Tom Endy

1crosscut · 06-15-2011, 09:52 PM

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Is the line leaking at a connection or is the seam in the steel line leaking. If it is the seam I have had good luck cleaning it up good and re-soldering the seam.

Steve Wastler · 06-15-2011, 10:07 PM

I use teflon tape or pipe dope on all flare, compression, slip joint and any pipe fittings. It's purpose is more of a thread lubricator than a sealer. Lubing the fittings allow the parts to fit together with less friction allowing the parts to seal correctly. If applied correctly there is no way for the tape or dope to enter the line or pipe.

Colorado Greg · 06-15-2011, 10:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leathernek

Just curious, why not use the teflon tape?

Teflon tape and gasoline do not go good together. The gas will deteriorate the teflon and get bits and pieces or long strings in the fuel line/carb. I have seen a float valve completely caked with teflon before. They make a teflon tape for gasoline applications if you must use it but as Tom said, this is not where the fuel line seals, it's in the flare. I put mine together without any sealers (dry) and everything sealed like its supposed to.

hardtimes · 06-16-2011, 12:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sethkestenbaum

I am looking to replace a leaking gas line that is located after the cut off but before the firewall on a 1929 Phaeton. Any advice on proceedure? Any warnings? This is my first repair on my first Model A and I would like to "get it right" the first time. I am also hoping to avoid draining the tank on the garage floor.

Seth,
There is a "thread sealer" made by 'permatex'! This product is excellent for sealing gasoline connections. And, it readily comes undone when necessary to redo lines,etc.
Some people use 'teflon' tape to accomplish the same goal. Been there/done that. I would NOT recommend that method for gasoline involved connections

!

sethkestenbaum · 06-21-2011, 05:17 PM

I was able to get a steel replacement from one of the suppliers and the repair went well (once I stopped babying the wrench and tightened the connection appropriately). No tape or thread sealer was used.

Tom, why not use the copper/brass connection? It is worth it to solder or patch the old copper line and put it back?

Tom F OHIO · 06-21-2011, 05:51 PM

Can you use a teflon pipe dope on the threads where the valve goes into the tank if your replacing the valve. You will have to use something. If you put it in dry I believe you are going to have a leak.

Colorado Greg · 06-21-2011, 07:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom F OHIO

Can you use a teflon pipe dope on the threads where the valve goes into the tank if your replacing the valve. You will have to use something. If you put it in dry I believe you are going to have a leak.

The valve is made of brass and will seal to the steel gas tank without any problems. I added the filter to the valve and put everything together dry, no sealers, and it is sealing just fine.

Bruce Lancaster · 06-22-2011, 09:25 AM

On the procedural side...if you do not know how well your shut-off valve works, turn it off and loosen plug at bottom of carb. This should get you a small amount of gas and it should stop dripping fairly soon. If gas keeps coming out, valve leaks...possibly best thing is to postpone job until car is nearly out of gas, then jack up right side before dismantling.

06-15-2011, 06:02 PM	#1
sethkestenbaum Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Westchester County, NY Posts: 632	Gas Line Replacement By Novice I am looking to replace a leaking gas line that is located after the cut off but before the firewall on a 1929 Phaeton. Any advice on proceedure? Any warnings? This is my first repair on my first Model A and I would like to "get it right" the first time. I am also hoping to avoid draining the tank on the garage floor.

06-15-2011, 06:28 PM	#2
Colorado Greg Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Littleton, Colorado Posts: 241	Re: Gas Line Replacement By Novice It's a pretty straight forward repair as long as your shut off valve is working correctly. Do not use any teflon tape on the threads. MAKE SURE YOU DISCONNECT THE BATTERY BEFORE MAKING THIS REPAIR! You may want to check to see if you have a filter in the shut off valve. You can look into the tank and see if there is a filter there. If there is not one, you'll want to take out the shut off valve and install one. You'll need to drain the tank for this. This will filter the crap out of the tank before getting into the fuel lines. Strongly advised! __________________ "Betsy doesn't leak oil - she just marks her spot"

06-15-2011, 09:52 PM	#6
1crosscut Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Lincoln, Nebraska Posts: 2,011	Re: Gas Line Replacement By Novice Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) Is the line leaking at a connection or is the seam in the steel line leaking. If it is the seam I have had good luck cleaning it up good and re-soldering the seam.

06-15-2011, 10:07 PM	#7
Steve Wastler Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 1,987	Re: Gas Line Replacement By Novice I use teflon tape or pipe dope on all flare, compression, slip joint and any pipe fittings. It's purpose is more of a thread lubricator than a sealer. Lubing the fittings allow the parts to fit together with less friction allowing the parts to seal correctly. If applied correctly there is no way for the tape or dope to enter the line or pipe.

06-21-2011, 05:17 PM	#10
sethkestenbaum Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Westchester County, NY Posts: 632	Re: Gas Line Replacement By Novice I was able to get a steel replacement from one of the suppliers and the repair went well (once I stopped babying the wrench and tightened the connection appropriately). No tape or thread sealer was used. Tom, why not use the copper/brass connection? It is worth it to solder or patch the old copper line and put it back?

06-21-2011, 05:51 PM	#11
Tom F OHIO Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Mansfield, Ohio Posts: 593	Re: Gas Line Replacement By Novice Can you use a teflon pipe dope on the threads where the valve goes into the tank if your replacing the valve. You will have to use something. If you put it in dry I believe you are going to have a leak.

06-22-2011, 09:25 AM	#13
Bruce Lancaster Member Emeritus Join Date: May 2010 Location: Madison, NJ Posts: 5,230	Re: Gas Line Replacement By Novice On the procedural side...if you do not know how well your shut-off valve works, turn it off and loosen plug at bottom of carb. This should get you a small amount of gas and it should stop dripping fairly soon. If gas keeps coming out, valve leaks...possibly best thing is to postpone job until car is nearly out of gas, then jack up right side before dismantling.