The Ford Barn

wearymicrobe · 04-18-2011, 04:37 PM

Does anybody have a source for 3.00-2.75 gears for a Ford Banjo rear end.
I have only seen one company offer a 3.27 and at 849$ it seems a little excessive.

3.00 gears would put me at 2300 rpm at 60. 2.7's would put me at ~2000 at 62mph. I cruise on the freeway around that speed.

This is going in car with a Flathead making ~140hp in those RPM ranges so I should be able to push the car along decently.

1931 flamingo · 04-18-2011, 04:40 PM

Don't think so, but looking at book today 4:11's were recommended for use with an O/D . And then what year banjo are you running? info-info-info What are you using for a tranny?
Paul in CT

Bruce Lancaster · 04-18-2011, 05:20 PM

I believe I am correct in saying that 3.26 or 7 is the highest gear ever commercially made for any of the banjos...memory from an early fifties Getz Gear ad. Getz was the king of Ford gearing, offering many more selections than Ford and running from the gear mentioned to tractor-like low ratios close to 5:00 for very short dirt tracks.
Until later in the '50's, they offered this range for A, early V-8, and '35-48.
I don't think gears in the range you want will be very practical without either a torque converter trans, a very wide-ratio 4-speed, or gearing achieved via an overdrive from a lower R&P.
You simply need more than 3 gears and one-to-one high can provide.
By the way, I built a large collection of 75--80 MPH plus speeding tickets with a tired stock 239 and 3.78's when I was in college. 62 is loafing and does not require funny gears!

Phred · 04-18-2011, 05:25 PM

Of course you've already considered a quick change rear end, very pricy, but you could get your gearing. Call Bert's in Denver, their 2011 catalog shows a 3.27 gear for $600. Hope this helps.
Peace

BRENT in 10-uh-C · 04-18-2011, 05:26 PM

I was just gonna say that this seems like an excellent opportunity for a quickchange rear end. As far as excessive goes, what are your other options? At $850, it seems like it is the cheapest option to you!!

.

MikeK · 04-18-2011, 05:43 PM

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The problem here is that as numerical ratio decreases, the pinion diameter increases (not a problem) and the thickness of the ring/crown that bolts to the differential carrier decreases (BIG problem).

Decreased thickness of the ring/crown is the limiting factor. There would be nothing thick enough to bolt to. That's why you don't see ratios numerically lower than the three-twenties for banjo rears. A redesigned carrier and increased banjo width would be required. Methinks an O.D. is your best bet, lest you like the evil eyes a non-stock rear end will draw. I guess it depends on who you hang with?

Bruce Lancaster · 04-18-2011, 08:10 PM

So...what trans will you be using if you can get gearing that high?

hardtimes · 04-18-2011, 09:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bruce Lancaster

So...what trans will you be using if you can get gearing that high?

BRUCE,
i put new 3.27 set in my '29 coupe with ,nearly, stock engine and stock transmission....and no tach...what would be your guess at my engine rpms at 60 mph?

Kahuna · 04-18-2011, 11:07 PM

Depends on tire size/diameter

wearymicrobe · 04-18-2011, 11:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hardtimes

BRUCE,
i put new 3.27 set in my '29 coupe with ,nearly, stock engine and stock transmission....and no tach...what would be your guess at my engine rpms at 60 mph?

Final gear is a 1:1, tires around 28 inch would be around 2400.

I know that I quick change is really the best option or a overdrive but its not in the budget. Was hoping to keep it under 750$ total.

3.27 and moving my tires up to a 31 inch would drop me to 2200ish range at 60 which is much better then I am at right now. My motor will spin to 3K and stay there very happily I would just like to take a bit of stress off the transmission if possible.

Terry, NJ · 04-19-2011, 12:21 AM

Try "Randy"s Ring and Pinion" Online. I don't know if they have any Mod A stuff. This site has some useful info such as calculators for RPMs Etc.
Terry

Geo. H · 04-19-2011, 12:26 AM

My answer to your dilemna was 3.54 gears, a 39 trans, and a Volvo OD. Of course I didn't do it for $600. Sixty is a piece of cake. I'm guessing it will top out a 75, but I won't be driving it.

hardtimes · 04-19-2011, 01:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kahuna

Depends on tire size/diameter

kahuna,
yeah, i realized that i hadnt put the tire/rim size down. tried to 'edit' this info in, but this darn new fangled machine regularly out manuvers me

i have stock 21 inch wheels/tires with the 3.27 rear.

hardtimes · 04-19-2011, 01:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Geo. H

My answer to your dilemna was 3.54 gears, a 39 trans, and a Volvo OD. Of course I didn't do it for $600. Sixty is a piece of cake. I'm guessing it will top out a 75, but I won't be driving it.

geo,
curious to know how and/or if the addition of zepher gear set to '39 trans would change final rpm equasion?

Jason in TX · 04-19-2011, 04:04 AM

3rd gear with a Lincoln gear set is still 1:1, same as a stock Model A box. They don't offer any kind of Overdrive benefit. One revolution of the driveshaft for every one revolution of the crank.

The glory of Lincoln gears are that you can wind them out longer in First gear and second gear. So to answer your question, Lincoln gears would not change the final RPMs in your equation.

Bruce Lancaster · 04-19-2011, 11:21 AM

You're still looking at the wrong end of the problem, I think. With three gears (28 tooth, likely??) look at your FIRST gear ratios. I think 3.00 will be getting you into trouble with startup acceleration.
Just crudely ran some numbers based on 3.78 vs 3.00 and 28 tooth gears...
startup ratio with 3.00 is about halfway between first and second with 3.78...add in bigger tires and it will get worse. 2.7 would be killer...grandmay in her suburu wombat station wagon will be honking and shaking her fist if she's stuck behind you...
Moving up in speed...probably with 3, I think certainly with 2.7, you will encounter the need to downshift at fairly high speeds...25 tooth zephyr$$ would be nice here, but would absolutely kill off the line...swapping the other way, to 29 tooth gears, would help startup, but would put 2nd gear off the map at 50 or 60...
I think you cannot get where you want to be through rear gears; you need (I assume torque converter is right out of here!) MORE trans gears, either super low ones if you go to a high rear, or trans with an OD and regular 3.78 or 4.11 rear. Note that an OD would be a GRAND SLAM solution, allowing you to sizzle the tires off the line with 4.11 rear and still cruise at low chug.
$750 is only a little more than current prices for just R&P, which cannot really do a good job here anyway.
Fancy trans like T5 requires lots of hacking and $$, Columbia rear is heart attack expensive, QC is not really a driving solution.
I think best overall solution...for now, keep 3.78 (an assumption...you haven't said much about car) and it will be fine at 60, put the $750 deep in your sock drawer and keep stealing from the grocery and college funds till you can swing something like a Mitchell. OLd Fords need MORE gears, not super-high.

P.S. Is anyone else here right now clutching an Iskenderian "dream wheel" ratio computer?

wearymicrobe · 04-19-2011, 06:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bruce Lancaster

P.S. Is anyone else here right now clutching an Iskenderian "dream wheel" ratio computer?

Man I want one of those things.

Guess I am going to to look into how much more I have in the sock drawer.

callcoy · 04-19-2011, 07:11 PM

I believe if you contact Jim Brierly with F.A.S.T. he may be able to help. A few years ago they reprinted in their newsletter the Dream Wheel. He may be able to email it to you, however you really should join F.A.S.T. it is cheap and you will learn alot. Tell him I sent you!

Bruce Lancaster · 04-20-2011, 09:29 AM

It is reproduced...don't know if it still has Ford trans ratios printed on it:

http://www.honestcharley.com/iskende...-computer.html

It is actually kind of hard to use, since ratios have to be guesstimated between tiny 1/10 lines, but is a cool toy anyway.

What you should do IMHO: Find one of the many online sites with ratio/tire size/RPM calculators.
Make a simple 2 axis graph...rpm and speed.
Calculate each gearing of interest with tire size you plan.
On the gears of interest, ALSO calculate RPM and speed through the lower trans gears! This is important...just going to super high ratio with only 3 speeds is going to leave you with no steam in first gear.

04-18-2011, 04:37 PM	#1
wearymicrobe Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Posts: 31	Source 3.00-2.75 Gears for Banjo Rear End Does anybody have a source for 3.00-2.75 gears for a Ford Banjo rear end. I have only seen one company offer a 3.27 and at 849$ it seems a little excessive. 3.00 gears would put me at 2300 rpm at 60. 2.7's would put me at ~2000 at 62mph. I cruise on the freeway around that speed. This is going in car with a Flathead making ~140hp in those RPM ranges so I should be able to push the car along decently.

04-18-2011, 04:40 PM	#2
1931 flamingo Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: new britain,ct 06052 Posts: 9,428	Re: Source 3.00-2.75 Gears for Banjo Rear End Don't think so, but looking at book today 4:11's were recommended for use with an O/D . And then what year banjo are you running? info-info-info What are you using for a tranny? Paul in CT

04-18-2011, 05:20 PM	#3
Bruce Lancaster Member Emeritus Join Date: May 2010 Location: Madison, NJ Posts: 5,230	Re: Source 3.00-2.75 Gears for Banjo Rear End I believe I am correct in saying that 3.26 or 7 is the highest gear ever commercially made for any of the banjos...memory from an early fifties Getz Gear ad. Getz was the king of Ford gearing, offering many more selections than Ford and running from the gear mentioned to tractor-like low ratios close to 5:00 for very short dirt tracks. Until later in the '50's, they offered this range for A, early V-8, and '35-48. I don't think gears in the range you want will be very practical without either a torque converter trans, a very wide-ratio 4-speed, or gearing achieved via an overdrive from a lower R&P. You simply need more than 3 gears and one-to-one high can provide. By the way, I built a large collection of 75--80 MPH plus speeding tickets with a tired stock 239 and 3.78's when I was in college. 62 is loafing and does not require funny gears!

04-18-2011, 05:25 PM	#4
Phred Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: IL Posts: 303	Re: Source 3.00-2.75 Gears for Banjo Rear End Of course you've already considered a quick change rear end, very pricy, but you could get your gearing. Call Bert's in Denver, their 2011 catalog shows a 3.27 gear for $600. Hope this helps. Peace

04-18-2011, 05:26 PM	#5
BRENT in 10-uh-C Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Eastern Tennessee Posts: 11,972	Re: Source 3.00-2.75 Gears for Banjo Rear End I was just gonna say that this seems like an excellent opportunity for a quickchange rear end. As far as excessive goes, what are your other options? At $850, it seems like it is the cheapest option to you!! . __________________ . BRENT in 10-uh-C . www.model-a-ford.com ...(...Finally Updated!! ) .

04-18-2011, 05:43 PM	#6
MikeK Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Windy City Posts: 2,919	Re: Source 3.00-2.75 Gears for Banjo Rear End Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) The problem here is that as numerical ratio decreases, the pinion diameter increases (not a problem) and the thickness of the ring/crown that bolts to the differential carrier decreases (BIG problem). Decreased thickness of the ring/crown is the limiting factor. There would be nothing thick enough to bolt to. That's why you don't see ratios numerically lower than the three-twenties for banjo rears. A redesigned carrier and increased banjo width would be required. Methinks an O.D. is your best bet, lest you like the evil eyes a non-stock rear end will draw. I guess it depends on who you hang with?

04-18-2011, 08:10 PM	#7
Bruce Lancaster Member Emeritus Join Date: May 2010 Location: Madison, NJ Posts: 5,230	Re: Source 3.00-2.75 Gears for Banjo Rear End So...what trans will you be using if you can get gearing that high?

04-18-2011, 11:07 PM	#9
Kahuna Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: NorCal Posts: 2,617	Re: Source 3.00-2.75 Gears for Banjo Rear End Depends on tire size/diameter

04-19-2011, 12:21 AM	#11
Terry, NJ Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Bucks Co, Pa Posts: 3,749	Re: Source 3.00-2.75 Gears for Banjo Rear End Try "Randy"s Ring and Pinion" Online. I don't know if they have any Mod A stuff. This site has some useful info such as calculators for RPMs Etc. Terry

04-19-2011, 12:26 AM	#12
Geo. H Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 374	Re: Source 3.00-2.75 Gears for Banjo Rear End My answer to your dilemna was 3.54 gears, a 39 trans, and a Volvo OD. Of course I didn't do it for $600. Sixty is a piece of cake. I'm guessing it will top out a 75, but I won't be driving it.

04-19-2011, 04:04 AM	#15
Jason in TX Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: ⓉⒺXⒶⓈ Posts: 2,047	Re: Source 3.00-2.75 Gears for Banjo Rear End 3rd gear with a Lincoln gear set is still 1:1, same as a stock Model A box. They don't offer any kind of Overdrive benefit. One revolution of the driveshaft for every one revolution of the crank. The glory of Lincoln gears are that you can wind them out longer in First gear and second gear. So to answer your question, Lincoln gears would not change the final RPMs in your equation. __________________ -------------- Drive it like you know how to fix it! DMAFC / OILERS CC-MC

04-19-2011, 11:21 AM	#16
Bruce Lancaster Member Emeritus Join Date: May 2010 Location: Madison, NJ Posts: 5,230	Re: Source 3.00-2.75 Gears for Banjo Rear End You're still looking at the wrong end of the problem, I think. With three gears (28 tooth, likely??) look at your FIRST gear ratios. I think 3.00 will be getting you into trouble with startup acceleration. Just crudely ran some numbers based on 3.78 vs 3.00 and 28 tooth gears... startup ratio with 3.00 is about halfway between first and second with 3.78...add in bigger tires and it will get worse. 2.7 would be killer...grandmay in her suburu wombat station wagon will be honking and shaking her fist if she's stuck behind you... Moving up in speed...probably with 3, I think certainly with 2.7, you will encounter the need to downshift at fairly high speeds...25 tooth zephyr$$ would be nice here, but would absolutely kill off the line...swapping the other way, to 29 tooth gears, would help startup, but would put 2nd gear off the map at 50 or 60... I think you cannot get where you want to be through rear gears; you need (I assume torque converter is right out of here!) MORE trans gears, either super low ones if you go to a high rear, or trans with an OD and regular 3.78 or 4.11 rear. Note that an OD would be a GRAND SLAM solution, allowing you to sizzle the tires off the line with 4.11 rear and still cruise at low chug. $750 is only a little more than current prices for just R&P, which cannot really do a good job here anyway. Fancy trans like T5 requires lots of hacking and $$, Columbia rear is heart attack expensive, QC is not really a driving solution. I think best overall solution...for now, keep 3.78 (an assumption...you haven't said much about car) and it will be fine at 60, put the $750 deep in your sock drawer and keep stealing from the grocery and college funds till you can swing something like a Mitchell. OLd Fords need MORE gears, not super-high. P.S. Is anyone else here right now clutching an Iskenderian "dream wheel" ratio computer?

04-19-2011, 07:11 PM	#18
callcoy Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Hendersonville TN Posts: 180	Re: Source 3.00-2.75 Gears for Banjo Rear End I believe if you contact Jim Brierly with F.A.S.T. he may be able to help. A few years ago they reprinted in their newsletter the Dream Wheel. He may be able to email it to you, however you really should join F.A.S.T. it is cheap and you will learn alot. Tell him I sent you! __________________ Steve - Santa Rosa

04-20-2011, 09:29 AM	#19
Bruce Lancaster Member Emeritus Join Date: May 2010 Location: Madison, NJ Posts: 5,230	Re: Source 3.00-2.75 Gears for Banjo Rear End It is reproduced...don't know if it still has Ford trans ratios printed on it: http://www.honestcharley.com/iskende...-computer.html It is actually kind of hard to use, since ratios have to be guesstimated between tiny 1/10 lines, but is a cool toy anyway. What you should do IMHO: Find one of the many online sites with ratio/tire size/RPM calculators. Make a simple 2 axis graph...rpm and speed. Calculate each gearing of interest with tire size you plan. On the gears of interest, ALSO calculate RPM and speed through the lower trans gears! This is important...just going to super high ratio with only 3 speeds is going to leave you with no steam in first gear.