block cracks..flathead

[hardtimes]

Has anyone found and/or satisfactorily used some product to help locate small cracks in cast iron block, that you can refer me to ?
Water coming out exhaust header when run with coolant..bummer ! Trying to determine how many cracks and where located in the valve seat/exhaust areas.

Trying to fix such cracks after located, is whole other problem

[Ronnieroadster]

Ive had good results on a very tired and cracked flathead block in sealing cracks by using liquid sodium silcate 40 % its also know as water glass. The block was then run in my race car with no water leak issues ran as fast as 170 MPH in a mile an extreme use for a cracked block and it worked sealing. You can find it on Ebay just mix it with water not anti freeze the stuff works.

[29AVEE8]

Speedway sells a couple of pressure test kits. One is made by Offenhauser at $269.00 or Speedway sells there own for $249.00.

http://www.speedwaymotors.com/Flathe...-Kit,5958.html

Here are some that I have found: The first photo is of cylinders 6 on the left and 7 on the right. They both have exhaust port cracks. #6 extends under the hard seat back into the port. #7 actually extends past the seat into the bore and about halfway down. The second photo shows a crack in the valley at the parting line of the casting just under #4 intake guide.

I put about 40psi into the system then spray it with windex. I also spray all of the valley then roll the engine over and do the pan rails and inside the exhaust ports I use an inexpensive bore camera from HF to view inside the exhaust ports.

[hardtimes]

Originally Posted by Ronnieroadster

Ive had good results on a very tired and cracked flathead block in sealing cracks by using liquid sodium silcate 40 % its also know as water glass. The block was then run in my race car with no water leak issues ran as fast as 170 MPH in a mile an extreme use for a cracked block and it worked sealing. You can find it on Ebay just mix it with water not anti freeze the stuff works.

Hey Ronnie,
Great information, thanks for your help/suggestion.
I've read up on your suggested remedy (sodium silicate) and have a couple of questions that maybe you can help on.

First have to get coolant in block hot by running engine at least 20 minutes. My engine runs great...without coolant...but when I add water to engine...the coolant is sucked into cylinders via valves and HYDROLOCK occurs ! Can't even get it to run long enough with water/coolant to put anything into coolant.

Second, I'm wondering what damage to engine will/may occur, if liquid glass is sucked into cylinders....if I were to get engine to run to hot condition, then add silicate ? In other words, will sodium silicate in cylinders, etc...destroy/damage engine
Any help is appreciated.

This is a REBUILT engine that the sob said that he bought and used a pressure kit to make sure that there were NO cracks..ha ! You know what a rebuilt engine costs !!

[colin1928]

Hi Rick I use 2 methods 1st pressure testing left over night and as above test with soapy water
2nd This Rocol flawfinder works quite well
Colin

[Kurt in NJ]

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I have found that a armature growler can also be used for finding cracks---at first I used cylinder boring and brake rotor cuttings from fine cuts, then i got the real powder with dye in it, works much better for seeing, but the homemade powder from .001 curts finds the cracks too

[Ronnie]

Phone these guys and talk to tech dept.

http://www.irontite.com/store/index....&products_id=1

R

[aonemarine]

You can buy the magnetic detection powder and applicator from goodson mfg and just use a couple of high power neodymium magnets to magnatise the block.
If you are getting that much water into the cylinder then it should be easy to see with the eye. Perhaps this is just a problem with the head gasket??

[wga]

What Ronnie says. Irontite is the best. Not sure how you can use their block cleaner if the engine sucking water. If you can keep it running without damaging the engine, their block cleaner will remove all traces of anti freeze. This is important, as any AF will not allow the sealant to 'attach' itself to the crack. Once clean use their ceramic seal. Follow the directions - do not deviate. Including the drying. Use your shop vac to blow air into the cooling system to help it get dry.
Their tech department is excellent.

[trainguy]

Originally Posted by wga

What Ronnie says. Irontite is the best. Not sure how you can use their block cleaner if the engine sucking water. If you can keep it running without damaging the engine, their block cleaner will remove all traces of anti freeze. This is important, as any AF will not allow the sealant to 'attach' itself to the crack. Once clean use their ceramic seal. Follow the directions - do not deviate. Including the drying. Use your shop vac to blow air into the cooling system to help it get dry.
Their tech department is excellent.

I used a kit sold by Irontite to cure a mystery coolent leak on my flat powered hi boy.I chase this problem for a long time.The coolent was somehow finding its way in to a cylinder.I changed the heads,inspected the block for cracks replaced the head gasket twice and was out of ideas.I followed the procedure in the Irontite kit,Problem solved!! The engine now runs at thermostat temp and looses no water,even in 90 deg days. Irontite has made me a believer.Phil

[hardtimes]

Originally Posted by Ronnie

Phone these guys and talk to tech dept.

http://www.irontite.com/store/index....&products_id=1

R

I will contact the tech dept as suggested. I'll let you all know what outcome of that is.

This block has had NO ANTI-FREEZE installed into it.

I suppose that most of you guys (Early V8 owners/members) have knowledge/experience with Fords flathead early V8s . Same here.

However, I am mostly into '32 four cylinder flathead blocks, etc. So, that is the type cast iron block that I am having this problem with. Just saying, for you guys who may be 'thinking' V8 block...

BTW I feel compelled to give this advice also.
Research/know the shop owner/rebuilder, before dropping a whole lot of $ into his pot ! I am beating myself up for not avoiding this pos , who lied and caused this expensive anchor to be 'rebuilt'. For example, he charged me for purchase of and use of 'pressure test kit'. He kept the kit and obviously did not pressure test this block. Maybe didn't even obtain the kit ? Now just trying to make lemonade , from what he handed me back .

Sure does run/sound awesome when run dry though .........

[Frank Miller]

if you are getting hydrolock you do not need a very sophisticated method to find that crack. If you have not disassembled anything then figure out what cylinder(s) is giving you the problem. Now take that head off and inspect the head gasket and for what it is worth the head too.

[hardtimes]

Originally Posted by Ronnie

Phone these guys and talk to tech dept.

http://www.irontite.com/store/index....&products_id=1

R

Ok, checking in with 'plan' of action !
I phoned and spoke with available personnel, Lyn. He listened and gave his knowledge/thoughts on his product and my input. Nice representative, indeed ! Lyn stated that the tech 'guru' , with decades of work/experience with fixing problem block cracks...on vacation.

Lyn says that without being able to bring block and coolant up to full operating temp...sodium silicate WON'T work ! He also gave good ideas, regarding placing a system on a block, which system seals up ALL water ports and also circulates HOT water (with chemical) . That way, do not have to operate / run engine. Expensive equipment, but he thought that maybe he/they could refer me to 'someone in the area' who could loan and/0r use their equipment to do this job.

Lyn stated unequivocally that....in my situation...getting sodium silicate into the block internals, 'WILL RUIN THE ENGINE' ! This confirmed what another member had warned me about some time ago.

I figure that my only other possible option, is to contain the collant , somehow, in the block until operating temp and the liquid glass/whatever could be safely added. Upon explaining my plan to Lyn, he said that it might work !!

I've now put Manley's Miracle Seal Exhaust (1250degree)(Jeg's) in and on all of the ports(pictures). Will order All Weather Seal (Irontite.com) , and install that with water/coolant ...and run engine. Lyn says that All Weather Seal is safe and 'WILL SEAL' , if the block holds water till it get to operating temps. We'll see, eh

To all of you guys who helped with input...THANKS, you are the best !!
I'll let you know outcome, if/when I get it done.

[petehoovie]

Run the engine without the water pumps operating to get it up to the temp the 'All Weather Seal' requires....

[Russ/40]

I'm very interested in the outcome of your situation. I have a coolant leak from within the intake runner on a flathead V8. Waterglass ( Morosso ) did not work. Bars was the first attempt it did nothing. Keep us posted...and good luck!

[Ronnieroadster]

Originally Posted by hardtimes

I will contact the tech dept as suggested. I'll let you all know what outcome of that is.

This block has had NO ANTI-FREEZE installed into it.

I suppose that most of you guys (Early V8 owners/members) have knowledge/experience with Fords flathead early V8s . Same here.

However, I am mostly into '32 four cylinder flathead blocks, etc. So, that is the type cast iron block that I am having this problem with. Just saying, for you guys who may be 'thinking' V8 block...

BTW I feel compelled to give this advice also.
Research/know the shop owner/rebuilder, before dropping a whole lot of $ into his pot ! I am beating myself up for not avoiding this pos , who lied and caused this expensive anchor to be 'rebuilt'. For example, he charged me for purchase of and use of 'pressure test kit'. He kept the kit and obviously did not pressure test this block. Maybe didn't even obtain the kit ? Now just trying to make lemonade , from what he handed me back .

Sure does run/sound awesome when run dry though .........

Being a four cylinder changes the picture a lot there's not a lot of water jacket in the block compared to the V-8. With such a big leak I would think a nice rusty surface will show you exactly where the crack is located.
Many blocks have been saved by using iron pins to stitch the crack closed and with sealer added to the engine after the crack has been pinned the leak will be eliminated completely.
I would still use the sodium silicate for the final sealer after application a cleaning of the oil pan should be done to be sure whatever sealer your adding is not getting mixed with the oil. Most so called block sealers are just watered down sodium silicate that cost a lot of money for very little sealer.

[super flat]

Sorry, but I think your engine has to be cracked enough to see with disassembly! If you can hydro lock a cylinder no sealer will fix it and will destroy your engine. My 2 cents, good luck, Gary

[v8nut]

There is an outfit in Turlock CA called "Lock and Stitch" that can fix almost anything cast iron that is broken or cracked. You can see some videos of their work on the internet. My machinist friend in Santa Clara CA uses a magna flux method to look for and find cracks. It is simple and fairly inexpensive to do. I am not sure how "Lock and Stitch" would get to and repair cracks in the valve pockets but at least it would be worth a call to talk to them

[aonemarine]

Identify the problem then come up with a plan to repair it. Not repair everything and hope you got it. Oh well too late now....

[hardtimes]

Originally Posted by v8nut

There is an outfit in Turlock CA called "Lock and Stitch" that can fix almost anything cast iron that is broken or cracked. You can see some videos of their work on the internet. My machinist friend in Santa Clara CA uses a magna flux method to look for and find cracks. It is simple and fairly inexpensive to do. I am not sure how "Lock and Stitch" would get to and repair cracks in the valve pockets but at least it would be worth a call to talk to them

Thanks for the Turlock referral, good usable info, indeed !
Small world, as is said. Many years ago, Turlock is the city where the '32 B engine in my '30 roadster, was built using nos Russian b block and nos C crank and other nice parts. The guy still lives and has a shop there and STILL builds outstanding flathead A/B engines ! He may be the 'stitch' man also, as he is an outstanding machinist/builder !

As said, I'll get back with you, to report results, when I have tried my plan for a fix of these hairline exhaust/intake cracks.