Engine ID help 1935

[deeprock]

I recently purchase a 1935 5 window coupe. It came with two engines. Both have the 21 stud heads and water pumps on the head. But one has a 3 inch center to center main bearing cap, and one has a 3.25 inch center to center. What engine is correct for a July 1935. Also noticed the water outlets are a bit different .

[ford38v8]

Either could conceivably have been installed in a very late '35 Ford. The 3 1/4" cap is insert bearing, which began production in late '35. The 3" cap babbitt engine continued on till mid '36. Someone else may have the exact dates of production on both these engines, which were identical appearing on the exterior, but for some (apparently not all) insert engines having a LB stamped into the passenger side valve cover surface.

[JM 35 Sedan]

I would use the one that's in the best mechanical condition, since as Alan said, either engine could have been used in production of your car. The LB engine would be the most desirable of the two engines because of the insert mains.

[deeprock]

Thanks guys, I will use the LB engine.
-shad

[Hoop]

deeprock,

You mentioned the water outlets were a bit different. Can you be more specific? For some of us who own 35's, even small engine details are very interesting.

For Alan and John, the earliest LB engine i've owned had no stamp and came with a transmission, attached and looking like the original mate, with an October 1935 ID. This seems to agree with Francis/DeAngelos and September introduction for 1936 model year production beginning in October '35. BUT, i've seen very little information on LB's used in 1935 which, of course, was possible ... since I have a couple of 1935's, it would be interesting to know what engines really went where.

Sometimes the production figures do not take into consideration the realities of what happens in factories. For example, the issue of maroon paint on standard cars.

Also, were any of the 3 1/4 mains babbitted?

Thanks for any further rarely-offered detailed info.

[JM 35 Sedan]

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Originally Posted by deeprock

Also noticed the water outlets are a bit different .

The original water outlets (upper water pump necks) on these engines would be different in that the left side would have a threaded hole for bulb of temperature gauge and right side would not have this threaded hole. However, in service of these engines, you will usually find the left side pumps also being used on the right side of engine.

Now if by chance you are referring to the engine mounts/lower engine water inlets, the only difference that I am aware of would be the configuration of '35 vs. '36.

Including pictures with posts, especially reguarding questions, is always very helpful.

"For Alan and John, the earliest LB engine i've owned had no stamp and came with a transmission, attached and looking like the original mate, with an October 1935 ID. This seems to agree with Francis/DeAngelos and September introduction for 1936 model year production beginning in October '35. BUT, i've seen very little information on LB's used in 1935 which, of course, was possible ... since I have a couple of 1935's, it would be interesting to know what engines really went where"

Likewise, I have two, (and possibly a third that has not been taken apart yet), LB engines that do not have the LB stamped on the deck surface for the intake manifold. One of these engines was removed from a documented original '35/'36, 1/2 ton pu, that was purchased new by a farmer located in Ellicott City, Md. This engine was given to me by a friend who now owns this pu. It also came with the original transmission which I still have. I reported the serial number on this transmission in a previous post (maybe prior to April 2010), but would have to check it again to post that info here.

[deeprock]

I was referring to the lower ones by the engine mount. one engine they come out straight, And the other one they are at a slight angle.

[flatheadfan]

From my understanding the lower angular hose mount/outlet are '36. The straight mount/outlet are '35s. The lower radiator outlets determine the angle. '35 have '36s have different radiators.

Tom

[JM 35 Sedan]

Being new to '35 Fords you should consider buying a copy of the Early Ford V-8 Clubs 1935 -36 Ford Book. You can go to their website and purchase a copy online. It is a great information resource for anyone who owns a '35 or '36 Ford.

https://www.earlyfordv8.org/early-ford-store.cfm

[Hoop]

There has been a long-time search to find external block differences between babbitt engines and "LB" engines. Some information is wrong BUT has been repeated so often that it is considered correct though without any foundation.

"Mid-36" is a popular time ... whether that was supposed to be the phase in of the LB or the phase out of babbitt. We know that LB's were available at the beginning of the !936 model production in Sept/Oct '35. If there are records that confirm any such mid-36 information, it would be interesting from a historical standpoint. If LB's were actually installed in 1935 models, again, it would be interesting to know where the information came from. Hearsay does not count.

The difference in the water outlets ... that refers to the engine mounts/supports not to the block itself. The bolt-on supports are interchangeable between the years

Sometimes using the wrong word or description can cause a lot of head-scratching. Francis/DeAngelos use "cast" instead of "stamped" to describe the LB markings on insert bearing engines. Funny how so many of us have engines with neither.

I add these comments for a little more clarity for those interested. To date, the surest way to identify LB engines is to drop the pan and check the mains.

[deeprock]

Originally Posted by JM 35 Sedan

Being new to '35 Fords you should consider buying a copy of the Early Ford V-8 Clubs 1935 -36 Ford Book. You can go to their website and purchase a copy online. It is a great information resource for anyone who owns a '35 or '36 Ford.

https://www.earlyfordv8.org/early-ford-store.cfm

I ordered that book last week, can't wait to get. So from what I understand, the LB would not have been in a mid 1935? I have matching numbers between the frame and transmission, built month would be July

-shad

[JM 35 Sedan]

Shad, one of the LB engines that I own, that was given to me with the transmission, both removed from an original 1/2 ton PU truck, has the serial number ☆18-2899679 ☆stamped on the transmission above the clutch inspection plate. According to the serial # listing in the EFV-8C/A's 1935-36 Ford Book, this was used in production in April of 1936. I have never seen authentic FOMOCO documentation stating exactly when the LB engine was first used in production. The documentation (books, articles, etc.) that I have read said the LB began use in production in October, 1935. It's possible that Don Rogers has found some additional information on this, other than what was originally published in his book, during his more recent trips to the Benson Research Center Ford Archives.

[ford38v8]

Originally Posted by Hoop

... I add these comments for a little more clarity for those interested. To date, the surest way to identify LB engines is to drop the pan and check the mains.

Hoop, There's no argument to your "more clarity" statement. The same information told in different words is often good to punch through the fog. In fact to that end, I'll clarify your last sentence:
To date, the only way to identify LB engines is to drop the pan and check the mains.

[Hoop]

Alan, I chose the word "surest" because I am not convinced that there is no other way.

If, for example, we could confirm that 3 1/4" centers on the mains never came with babbitt, we could develop another method. I've asked the question many times but nobody with actual eyes-on knowledge has responded. "Likely" it wasn't done ... "possibly" it was. We only need some experienced person to report finding babbitt used. There is also a chance that engines were re-babbitted with the rebuilder not being concerned with the caps, only that they fit.

For all the very knowledgeable flathead guys we have, I'd like one good authority to offer an answer. Otherwise, we cannot YET say "only" .... and I'm not arguing "ceramics" ... your point is well made, but my quest goes on.

You have much better contacts in the flathead community. Perhaps you can help check it out.

[VeryTangled]

Originally Posted by deeprock

I ordered that book last week, can't wait to get.

-shad

Hi Everyone, This is a great book, but did you know that there have been some corrections made? Get that info here: http://www.earlyfordv8.org/ford-book-corrections.cfm