The Ford Barn

amishboy · 06-24-2015, 08:21 AM

I've got a 24 bolt flathead believe its a 40 with the original distributor. I bought a remote kit to use a modern coil. Condenser is new and all the wiring is too. I have good readings on all of my connection as far as voltage and ohms go. When I remove my distributor caps to rock the points apart with a screwdriver I do not get spark between points, however when I touch the screwdriver to the distributor housing and rock it I get spark where ever the screwdriver is touching. I have taken a nail file and lightly clean the points. I have set the gap at .015. Aside from having never worked on something like this in my 26 years alive I feel that I did pretty good with this. I have to figure I don't have something adjusted right. Along with that if I decide to go to an electric distributor what all is involved?

wbedwards · 06-24-2015, 08:38 AM

Your car is positive ground? Is coil maybe hooked up backwards?

amishboy · 06-24-2015, 08:47 AM

I have the battery side of the coil coming in to the (-) side of the coil and then back out the (+) side to the distributor.

deuce_roadster · 06-24-2015, 08:57 AM

Instead of watching for sparks, you can tell if the points are working by watching the ammeter while cranking the engine over (obviously with key on). If the ammeter needle wiggles, your points are working. If the needle sits still, they are not. Cleaning the points is a good start to getting spark out of the coil. That is the first thing I would have done since you do have current inside the distributor. You may still have oxidation on them if they are not working. Do you have a multimeter to check voltage at various places?
Since you are new to this, did you know that the two sets of points are acting as ONE? One set makes the connection to the battery voltage, and the other breaks this connection and this causes the coil fire. They are not 2 separate operating sets, each causing the coil to fire.

amishboy · 06-24-2015, 09:02 AM

I did not know that about the points.All i know is that distributor is a very amazing device. I do have a multi-meter that I can test with. Where should I test with it at?

rotorwrench · 06-24-2015, 09:08 AM

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It sounds like something is not insulated well enough. The coil will generally deliver a high tension spark from the tower gapped to a ground whenever one of the breaker points is opened as long as nothing is shorted to ground and the components are in good condition with everything connected in the circuit. You can disconnect the coil high tension lead from the adapter on the divers helmet and set the terminal of the coil wire with a gap to a ground path to test. Coil polarity is important as to the efficiency of the generated spark but it will still generate a spark if the polarity is backwards.

Many of the condensers made today are crap right out of the box. It pays to have a known good one or at least one that will function consistantly well. Most folks don't have a tester so it isn't a bad idea to have several on hand to experiment with.

Your power source from the ignition switch should have a ballast resistor and you can have problems with one that has been in service for a long time. With the modern can type coils, you really don't need a ballast on 6-volt systems. The original coils had to have a ballast so you need to check the condition of what you have to make certain it is delivering good power flow to your coil. Your multi-meter can check the voltage at the coil's ignition connection.

amishboy · 06-24-2015, 09:17 AM

I installed a new resistor as well. I did pick up some NOS parts yesterday from a local flathead guy. He gave me a spare point and a spare zenith condenser. I have tested my power flow to my coil everything from that aspect is good. I'll have to pull the distributor again and really make sure that I have the points cleaned good and maybe Ill swap out one of the points with the spare I was given

40cpe · 06-24-2015, 09:29 AM

To expand on Deuce Roadster's comments: To get a spark from the points, you have to set the distributor where the other set of point is open. You have power to the point or they wouldn't spark. since you have the remote coil, you can put your volt meter on the distributor terminal and ground. Turn the engine, you will have voltage on the meter when the points are open, no voltage when the points close. If it is doing this, the points are working.

Bruce Lancaster · 06-24-2015, 09:34 AM

Also have a look at the little coil spring on bottom of coil and adapter...the conical bare one, not the one going to rotor. This is easy to cock and it might be bent out of contact with point bracket or even grounde...

George/Maine · 06-24-2015, 10:16 AM

The way I check for spark seeing you have a round coil newer, is take the wire out of dist and hold it near medal and turn key on and see if spark jumps good 3/8"
Do like you were going to start it engine turning.
As said the round coil no resister is needed with 6 volts. Make sure you have 6 volt coil. Check this way you see spark every time a cylinder fires.

ford38v8 · 06-24-2015, 12:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by George/Maine

The way I check for spark...

I usually brace myself with one hand while I grab a plug wire with the other. My elbow usually tells me if I have spark.

rotorwrench · 06-24-2015, 12:05 PM

Older condensers were made with wax paper as an insulator. The stuff deteriorates with time so I would recommend using a new part like the NAPA Echlin products.

Capt Kirk · 06-24-2015, 06:03 PM

Ford38...there are several ways to check for spark. Once, when I was a kid, I rode a mini-bike without a seat. Those Briggs have an AMAZING spark!!!

ford38v8 · 06-24-2015, 06:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Capt Kirk

Ford38...there are several ways to check for spark. Once, when I was a kid, I rode a mini-bike without a seat. Those Briggs have an AMAZING spark!!!

Talk about one-upmanship!

Capt Kirk · 06-24-2015, 07:06 PM

The key word in my post was "once". True story by the way!

alan · 06-24-2015, 09:26 PM

make sure the bottom of the points are clean and that the dist plate where they screw on is also, had one recently that was not and it would not fire. did you replace the rotor? if not pull it out and put shrinks tape around the shaft where the air gap is on the rotor, had several that were bleeding fire off because they were grounding out from the brush ring to the shaft

06-24-2015, 08:38 AM	#2
wbedwards Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2015 Location: Birmingham, Al. Posts: 339	Re: Not to be beating a dead horse..(distributor issues) Your car is positive ground? Is coil maybe hooked up backwards?

06-24-2015, 08:47 AM	#3
amishboy Junior Member Join Date: Jun 2015 Location: Michigan Posts: 22	Re: Not to be beating a dead horse..(distributor issues) I have the battery side of the coil coming in to the (-) side of the coil and then back out the (+) side to the distributor.

06-24-2015, 08:57 AM	#4
deuce_roadster Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Shelton, WA Posts: 3,820	Re: Not to be beating a dead horse..(distributor issues) Instead of watching for sparks, you can tell if the points are working by watching the ammeter while cranking the engine over (obviously with key on). If the ammeter needle wiggles, your points are working. If the needle sits still, they are not. Cleaning the points is a good start to getting spark out of the coil. That is the first thing I would have done since you do have current inside the distributor. You may still have oxidation on them if they are not working. Do you have a multimeter to check voltage at various places? Since you are new to this, did you know that the two sets of points are acting as ONE? One set makes the connection to the battery voltage, and the other breaks this connection and this causes the coil fire. They are not 2 separate operating sets, each causing the coil to fire.

06-24-2015, 09:02 AM	#5
amishboy Junior Member Join Date: Jun 2015 Location: Michigan Posts: 22	Re: Not to be beating a dead horse..(distributor issues) I did not know that about the points.All i know is that distributor is a very amazing device. I do have a multi-meter that I can test with. Where should I test with it at?

06-24-2015, 09:08 AM	#6
rotorwrench Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: San Antonio, Texas Posts: 16,515	Re: Not to be beating a dead horse..(distributor issues) Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) It sounds like something is not insulated well enough. The coil will generally deliver a high tension spark from the tower gapped to a ground whenever one of the breaker points is opened as long as nothing is shorted to ground and the components are in good condition with everything connected in the circuit. You can disconnect the coil high tension lead from the adapter on the divers helmet and set the terminal of the coil wire with a gap to a ground path to test. Coil polarity is important as to the efficiency of the generated spark but it will still generate a spark if the polarity is backwards. Many of the condensers made today are crap right out of the box. It pays to have a known good one or at least one that will function consistantly well. Most folks don't have a tester so it isn't a bad idea to have several on hand to experiment with. Your power source from the ignition switch should have a ballast resistor and you can have problems with one that has been in service for a long time. With the modern can type coils, you really don't need a ballast on 6-volt systems. The original coils had to have a ballast so you need to check the condition of what you have to make certain it is delivering good power flow to your coil. Your multi-meter can check the voltage at the coil's ignition connection. Last edited by rotorwrench; 06-24-2015 at 09:14 AM.

06-24-2015, 09:17 AM	#7
amishboy Junior Member Join Date: Jun 2015 Location: Michigan Posts: 22	Re: Not to be beating a dead horse..(distributor issues) I installed a new resistor as well. I did pick up some NOS parts yesterday from a local flathead guy. He gave me a spare point and a spare zenith condenser. I have tested my power flow to my coil everything from that aspect is good. I'll have to pull the distributor again and really make sure that I have the points cleaned good and maybe Ill swap out one of the points with the spare I was given

06-24-2015, 09:29 AM	#8
40cpe Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Star, MS Posts: 4,029	Re: Not to be beating a dead horse..(distributor issues) To expand on Deuce Roadster's comments: To get a spark from the points, you have to set the distributor where the other set of point is open. You have power to the point or they wouldn't spark. since you have the remote coil, you can put your volt meter on the distributor terminal and ground. Turn the engine, you will have voltage on the meter when the points are open, no voltage when the points close. If it is doing this, the points are working.

06-24-2015, 09:34 AM	#9
Bruce Lancaster Member Emeritus Join Date: May 2010 Location: Madison, NJ Posts: 5,230	Re: Not to be beating a dead horse..(distributor issues) Also have a look at the little coil spring on bottom of coil and adapter...the conical bare one, not the one going to rotor. This is easy to cock and it might be bent out of contact with point bracket or even grounde...

06-24-2015, 10:16 AM	#10
George/Maine Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Mid coast Maine Posts: 1,878	Re: Not to be beating a dead horse..(distributor issues) The way I check for spark seeing you have a round coil newer, is take the wire out of dist and hold it near medal and turn key on and see if spark jumps good 3/8" Do like you were going to start it engine turning. As said the round coil no resister is needed with 6 volts. Make sure you have 6 volt coil. Check this way you see spark every time a cylinder fires.

06-24-2015, 12:05 PM	#12
rotorwrench Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: San Antonio, Texas Posts: 16,515	Re: Not to be beating a dead horse..(distributor issues) Older condensers were made with wax paper as an insulator. The stuff deteriorates with time so I would recommend using a new part like the NAPA Echlin products.

06-24-2015, 06:03 PM	#13
Capt Kirk Senior Member Join Date: May 2015 Location: Clarkston MI Posts: 830	Re: Not to be beating a dead horse..(distributor issues) Ford38...there are several ways to check for spark. Once, when I was a kid, I rode a mini-bike without a seat. Those Briggs have an AMAZING spark!!! __________________ 35 Ford Cabriolet 56 Chevy Pickup 63 VW Bug Empty wallet

06-24-2015, 07:06 PM	#15
Capt Kirk Senior Member Join Date: May 2015 Location: Clarkston MI Posts: 830	Re: Not to be beating a dead horse..(distributor issues) The key word in my post was "once". True story by the way! __________________ 35 Ford Cabriolet 56 Chevy Pickup 63 VW Bug Empty wallet

06-24-2015, 09:26 PM	#16
alan Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: UPSTATESC Posts: 669	Re: Not to be beating a dead horse..(distributor issues) make sure the bottom of the points are clean and that the dist plate where they screw on is also, had one recently that was not and it would not fire. did you replace the rotor? if not pull it out and put shrinks tape around the shaft where the air gap is on the rotor, had several that were bleeding fire off because they were grounding out from the brush ring to the shaft