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Old 06-11-2020, 01:17 AM   #114
Terry Burtz, Calif
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Campbell,CA, USA
Posts: 313
Default Re: The Terry Burtz 5 main bearing engine blocks are back on track.

It may not be just that easy, at this point Vintage racing requires an authentic block. This block is not going to pass tech shed.
On issue that Donovan ran into was this, that is a hell for stout motor but cannot be used in competition.
I guess you could make application for a production status after a few thousand are made and sold maybe.
I hope this project is successful, John

John,
Thanks for your comments and words of encouragement.
The new engine is not intended for vintage racing, and nobody should cheat!!
The exterior of the new engine is identical to stock, so some disassembly is needed to confirm that the new engine isn't old. The easiest way to determine that it is not original would be to remove the oil filler tube and see if there is a web for a main bearing. If someone wants to cheat and new iron is needed to replace an original cylinder block, intermediate main bearing #2 could be removed from the new cylinder block. If 5 mains are wanted, a girdle could be fabricated to replace the missing main bearing. This would allow the new 5 main crankshaft with 8 counterweights and large bearings along with new connecting rods to be used. The next easiest way to determine that the new cylinder block is not original would be to remove the A-6017 Timing Gear Cover to see if there is a serial number and an oil passage plug that is not original.
What is the definition of an "authentic" block? Do the German G28T engines that were built as late as 1958 with full oil pressure and insert bearings qualify for vintage competition?
Regarding Donovan engines, I agree that they were stout, but they didn't look like a Model A engine when you got close, and many interfaces for attaching parts were different than stock Model A.



I note that Terry has gotten several questions along the lines of "Why give this business to China?" I think this quote from Apple CEO Tim Cook in 2017 shows exactly why:
Quote:
The popular conception is that companies come to China because of low labor cost. I'm not sure what part of China they go to, but the truth is China stopped being the low labor cost country many years ago. And that is not the reason to come to China from a supply point of view. The reason is because of the skill, and the quantity of skill in one location, and the type of skill it is. The products we do require really advanced tooling...and the tooling skill is very deep [in China]. In the U.S. you could have a meeting of tooling engineers, and I'm not sure we could fill the room. In China you could fill multiple football fields.
You can read more about the difficulty of re-creating the US's manufacturing capacity here. alexiskia


Alexiskia,
Thanks for the quote from Tom Cook. He is absolutely correct. I tried to have the "new engine" manufactured in the USA for several years. All of the foundries that I worked with have no quality assurance when it comes to making and assembling cores, and they refuse to follow a procedure.


Anyone have a guesstimate as to what the cost would be to the average Joe to purchase one of these blocks ready to assemble?
Also, what would the horsepower increase be? Keith

Keith,
Even with the uncertainties regarding transportation, customs, and tariffs, the retail price will be close to the cost of a quality rebuild assuming that you have good parts for the rebuild which means that no valve seats, cylinder sleeves, Helicoils, or crack repair is needed. If you have $3 to $4 K to spend, you are fine.
The "new engine" is designed for reliability with a stiffer crankshaft having 8 counterweights and is supported with five 2 inch diameter main bearings, connecting rod journals that are 2 inch diameter instead of 1 1/2 inch, and many more improvements.
Horsepower depends on what add-on parts you choose to use. If you use all stock parts, HP will be 40. At the other extreme, if you choose to use a DOHC HAL head with dual Winfield D carburetors, or something similar, HP will be closer to 200.




I would like to voltmeter to be a Beta tester on these new blocks/engines once production begins.
As I use my Model A as a "daily driver", logging 3-5K or more miles per year, and I am "not" an engineer I could provide a "real World" "average Joe" evaluation of performance, maintenance. and pros and cons of this new block to your main target consumer...the "average Joe"
This is a very thought provoking tread. Keith

Keith, Thanks for your offer to voltmeter to be a Beta tester. This is either a new test to me, or something is wrong with spell check. If you have big fingers like me, I understand the problem.
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