The Ford Barn - View Single Post - The Terry Burtz 5 main bearing engine blocks are back on track.

Terry Burtz, Calif · 08-25-2019, 08:48 PM

Dear Terry,
I have extremely limited experience of Chinese made parts but I understand that they can be less than rigorous when it comes to materials to the point where you may get a part that machines like cheese, or glass. I’m very impressed with your persistence and progress so far and as a Model A parts seller and restorer I’m very interested in your blocks.
Best Wishes, Rob

Parts made in China without good quality control can have the problems that you describe. The factory that has been selected specializes in the manufacture of cylinder blocks and other engine components, and they have excellent quality control. John (our team member responsible for manufacturing and quality assurance) will not accept anything unless it meets our requirements.

HI Terry,
Thanks for the update.
I have a question re the new engine, are you intending for it to have a fully pressurized oiling system?
Regards Peter

Yes, all 9 crankshaft bearings and all camshaft bearings will be supplied with oil under pressure. The crankshaft is also drilled to provide oil to the connecting rod bearings.

There are many other changes, and I encourage you to check out
http://www.modelaengine.com

My name is Stephen ,I. Own and drive a 1928 Model A Ford .
Just finishing a long drive Toronto to Nova Scotia about 3000 km .
Wish some how this engine could be made in the USA . I am a aircraft mechanic and
tolerances in my field are close. A lot of the after market parts are made in China
under Fords blessings .Much of it I buy from the. Mac. Snyder’s Burt’s these parts are
terrible /fit / longevity ,now you want them to build an engine I find that a Bit?
Got to be a way to keep the price and Jobs in AMERICA. and not to drive this engine off shore.
After three engine overhauls finally found one In Stokie ‘s that giving me the milage.
But I would like to buy an engine that a do not need to bring a tool chest with me..

I would be happy to have this engine produced in the USA, and tried to work with manufacturers in the USA for several years. When costs started spiraling upwards (from $800 to $2400) for just a raw cylinder block casting and there was no quality assurance to guarantee that the casting would not be full of porosity or have core shift, I put the project on hold in May 2015 because it became unaffordable (unless you want to spend $8000 or more). The project was revived as told in the previous (June) update when the team of John, Bill, Leonard, and myself agreed to revive it and make it affordable. John will be responsible for manufacturing and quality assurance. He has over 30 years of experience manufacturing parts (including iron cylinder blocks and other automobile parts) and is familiar with 4-place dimensional tolerances and quality control requirements.

The industry of casting and forging iron and steel has moved to third world countries, and that is where we had to go.

Ford does not bless and has no control over the terrible fitting aftermarket parts that you mention. For a fee, you can use the trademarked Ford oval and name on your product and packaging. Ford does not approve any design documentation for the part and has no control regarding quality control.

Hi Terry,
Receiving this latest update is very encouraging and exciting as a Model A guy.
Please add me to your email list, I get the emails through a Model A friend.
Have been following your project for several years and tried to find casting guys on the East coast to no avail.

Sounds like the team you've been fortunate to assemble is finally on the trail you had hoped for in you vision of an A engine upgrade.

I'm an electrical Eng by training and a mechanical engineer through my auto passion that has led me to be a manufacturing engineer in my present career.
As such, If at all possible I would love the opportunity to be one of your early Alpha customers to provide feedback on everything from fit/function/ integrity and overall performance.

Sad as it is, It does seem as if china and India are the only places that can do iron castings these days from what I can find out talking to casting source contacts I've made.

Best regards, best of luck in this new and exciting chapter of a modern A engine

Please feel free to ask if there is someway I can help you

Paul

Thanks for the encouraging words. Your observations regarding trying to find foundries on the East coast is the same on the West coast. During WW2 there were many shipyards around San Francisco Bay that were producing Liberty ships and others at a rate that was greater than the Axis powers could sink them. All of these ships required tons of iron castings that were poured and machined locally. Today, all of the shipyards, foundries and large machine shops are all gone.

Good day Terry,
Terry, if there is anything I can do to help, please feel free to ping me. I have been following your project for years.
I am interested in the project, I would love to contribute, I am willing to pre-order and pay for components, build and field test engines and provide field feed-back, I am not looking for anything but to help, I have a love for the hobby and have been running Model A’s for over 40 years. I am an avid car collector/builder and have built cars for museums and individuals, ranging from early Corvettes, vintage Chryslers, Chevys and of course Model A’s, as-well as hot-rods and vintage aircraft, I am a licensed Airframe/Engine tech and Pilot.

I am interested in field testing (I have several Model A’s that I can swap engines into), it’s common for me to tour for hundreds of miles on a single tour with the club that I am charter member of (the Worcester County Model A Club). Therefore it would not take long to begin to see field testing results. I have Model A’s with Mitchel Over-Drives, I could feedback results of performance with and without over-drives. I typically run Model B engines with the 40% bob-weight c-balance crank and 6.5:1 compression and all the Model B accessories. I would build engines at the horsepower you deem necessary for testing, whether it be mild or not, I would think most interested parties would be looking for something around 55/65hp, with an engine that can run at as much as 5000rpm, the Model A would comfortable when cruising at 2000 to 2500rpm, its perfect.

If there is anything I can do to help, please do not hesitate, I manage an ISO 17025 accredited dimensioned measuring laboratory, we hold temperature to 680F +/- 10F, therefore we know a little bit about measuring artifacts to exceedingly tight tolerances, including all sorts of hard dimensional gages, right down to good-old Gageblocks, our measuring capabilities are virtually unlimited, attributes such as; heights, parallel, squareness, bore size, lengths, pin diameter, Etc., Etc., is not a problem, and typically to six decimal places, or more. We also work with force, pressure and electronics, oven surveys, as-well-as others, for the sake of conversation.

Have a good day, and thanks for taking the time to see this project through, and thanks for taking the time to read this note. Ralph

Thank you for commenting. We are looking for independent third-party verification of the design. You have the skill-set that we are looking for.

Thanks Terry,
I hope this goes well for you.
My Son Tony is purchasing the machine shop from me but I am still doing R&D on new performance products. I have something I would like to ask and that would be an off the shelf tappet or lifter seems it’s getting harder to get adjustable lifters the problem is they should have a minimum foot of 1-1/8 or better yet the B lifter size of 1-3/16 that allows for better cam profile designs. I believe on the larger cam bore that will give me more room for profile design also.

Second question is oil pumps, are you bringing the oil out through a filter first with you insert bearing?
Thanks
Bill

All stock interfaces including the lifter bores are the same as an original Model A Ford cylinder block.

We are planning to make other parts in the future and will look at making an adjustable tappet with a larger diameter foot. Right now, we have our hands full with the cylinder block, crankshaft, and connecting rods.

Regarding oil circulation, a new "Oil Pump Drive Bearing" A-6560 will be provided. The new A-6560 is secured with a setscrew and will block off oil.

In the valve chamber, there is a horizontal passage (Full-length oil galley) between lifter bosses and cylinders that feeds oil to all crankshaft and camshaft bearings.

Oil can take one of two paths. For a stock unfiltered engine, there is a horizontal passage behind the 1/8 inch pipe plug on the side of the cylinder block which leads to a vertical passage which connects to the full-length oil galley. For a filtered engine, the horizontal passage behind the 1/8 inch pipe plug is plugged with a setscrew and all oil exits through the 1/8 inch plug. From there, oil goes through a filter and returns to the engine through the lower bolt of the "Cylinder Timing Gear Cover Side" (A-6017) which connects to the full-length oil galley.

08-25-2019, 08:48 PM	#72
Terry Burtz, Calif Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Campbell,CA, USA Posts: 319	Re: The Terry Burtz 5 main bearing engine blocks are back on track. Dear Terry, I have extremely limited experience of Chinese made parts but I understand that they can be less than rigorous when it comes to materials to the point where you may get a part that machines like cheese, or glass. I’m very impressed with your persistence and progress so far and as a Model A parts seller and restorer I’m very interested in your blocks. Best Wishes, Rob Parts made in China without good quality control can have the problems that you describe. The factory that has been selected specializes in the manufacture of cylinder blocks and other engine components, and they have excellent quality control. John (our team member responsible for manufacturing and quality assurance) will not accept anything unless it meets our requirements. HI Terry, Thanks for the update. I have a question re the new engine, are you intending for it to have a fully pressurized oiling system? Regards Peter Yes, all 9 crankshaft bearings and all camshaft bearings will be supplied with oil under pressure. The crankshaft is also drilled to provide oil to the connecting rod bearings. There are many other changes, and I encourage you to check out http://www.modelaengine.com My name is Stephen ,I. Own and drive a 1928 Model A Ford . Just finishing a long drive Toronto to Nova Scotia about 3000 km . Wish some how this engine could be made in the USA . I am a aircraft mechanic and tolerances in my field are close. A lot of the after market parts are made in China under Fords blessings .Much of it I buy from the. Mac. Snyder’s Burt’s these parts are terrible /fit / longevity ,now you want them to build an engine I find that a Bit? Got to be a way to keep the price and Jobs in AMERICA. and not to drive this engine off shore. After three engine overhauls finally found one In Stokie ‘s that giving me the milage. But I would like to buy an engine that a do not need to bring a tool chest with me.. I would be happy to have this engine produced in the USA, and tried to work with manufacturers in the USA for several years. When costs started spiraling upwards (from $800 to $2400) for just a raw cylinder block casting and there was no quality assurance to guarantee that the casting would not be full of porosity or have core shift, I put the project on hold in May 2015 because it became unaffordable (unless you want to spend $8000 or more). The project was revived as told in the previous (June) update when the team of John, Bill, Leonard, and myself agreed to revive it and make it affordable. John will be responsible for manufacturing and quality assurance. He has over 30 years of experience manufacturing parts (including iron cylinder blocks and other automobile parts) and is familiar with 4-place dimensional tolerances and quality control requirements. The industry of casting and forging iron and steel has moved to third world countries, and that is where we had to go. Ford does not bless and has no control over the terrible fitting aftermarket parts that you mention. For a fee, you can use the trademarked Ford oval and name on your product and packaging. Ford does not approve any design documentation for the part and has no control regarding quality control. Hi Terry, Receiving this latest update is very encouraging and exciting as a Model A guy. Please add me to your email list, I get the emails through a Model A friend. Have been following your project for several years and tried to find casting guys on the East coast to no avail. Sounds like the team you've been fortunate to assemble is finally on the trail you had hoped for in you vision of an A engine upgrade. I'm an electrical Eng by training and a mechanical engineer through my auto passion that has led me to be a manufacturing engineer in my present career. As such, If at all possible I would love the opportunity to be one of your early Alpha customers to provide feedback on everything from fit/function/ integrity and overall performance. Sad as it is, It does seem as if china and India are the only places that can do iron castings these days from what I can find out talking to casting source contacts I've made. Best regards, best of luck in this new and exciting chapter of a modern A engine Please feel free to ask if there is someway I can help you Paul Thanks for the encouraging words. Your observations regarding trying to find foundries on the East coast is the same on the West coast. During WW2 there were many shipyards around San Francisco Bay that were producing Liberty ships and others at a rate that was greater than the Axis powers could sink them. All of these ships required tons of iron castings that were poured and machined locally. Today, all of the shipyards, foundries and large machine shops are all gone. Good day Terry, Terry, if there is anything I can do to help, please feel free to ping me. I have been following your project for years. I am interested in the project, I would love to contribute, I am willing to pre-order and pay for components, build and field test engines and provide field feed-back, I am not looking for anything but to help, I have a love for the hobby and have been running Model A’s for over 40 years. I am an avid car collector/builder and have built cars for museums and individuals, ranging from early Corvettes, vintage Chryslers, Chevys and of course Model A’s, as-well as hot-rods and vintage aircraft, I am a licensed Airframe/Engine tech and Pilot. I am interested in field testing (I have several Model A’s that I can swap engines into), it’s common for me to tour for hundreds of miles on a single tour with the club that I am charter member of (the Worcester County Model A Club). Therefore it would not take long to begin to see field testing results. I have Model A’s with Mitchel Over-Drives, I could feedback results of performance with and without over-drives. I typically run Model B engines with the 40% bob-weight c-balance crank and 6.5:1 compression and all the Model B accessories. I would build engines at the horsepower you deem necessary for testing, whether it be mild or not, I would think most interested parties would be looking for something around 55/65hp, with an engine that can run at as much as 5000rpm, the Model A would comfortable when cruising at 2000 to 2500rpm, its perfect. If there is anything I can do to help, please do not hesitate, I manage an ISO 17025 accredited dimensioned measuring laboratory, we hold temperature to 680F +/- 10F, therefore we know a little bit about measuring artifacts to exceedingly tight tolerances, including all sorts of hard dimensional gages, right down to good-old Gageblocks, our measuring capabilities are virtually unlimited, attributes such as; heights, parallel, squareness, bore size, lengths, pin diameter, Etc., Etc., is not a problem, and typically to six decimal places, or more. We also work with force, pressure and electronics, oven surveys, as-well-as others, for the sake of conversation. Have a good day, and thanks for taking the time to see this project through, and thanks for taking the time to read this note. Ralph Thank you for commenting. We are looking for independent third-party verification of the design. You have the skill-set that we are looking for. Thanks Terry, I hope this goes well for you. My Son Tony is purchasing the machine shop from me but I am still doing R&D on new performance products. I have something I would like to ask and that would be an off the shelf tappet or lifter seems it’s getting harder to get adjustable lifters the problem is they should have a minimum foot of 1-1/8 or better yet the B lifter size of 1-3/16 that allows for better cam profile designs. I believe on the larger cam bore that will give me more room for profile design also. Second question is oil pumps, are you bringing the oil out through a filter first with you insert bearing? Thanks Bill All stock interfaces including the lifter bores are the same as an original Model A Ford cylinder block. We are planning to make other parts in the future and will look at making an adjustable tappet with a larger diameter foot. Right now, we have our hands full with the cylinder block, crankshaft, and connecting rods. Regarding oil circulation, a new "Oil Pump Drive Bearing" A-6560 will be provided. The new A-6560 is secured with a setscrew and will block off oil. In the valve chamber, there is a horizontal passage (Full-length oil galley) between lifter bosses and cylinders that feeds oil to all crankshaft and camshaft bearings. Oil can take one of two paths. For a stock unfiltered engine, there is a horizontal passage behind the 1/8 inch pipe plug on the side of the cylinder block which leads to a vertical passage which connects to the full-length oil galley. For a filtered engine, the horizontal passage behind the 1/8 inch pipe plug is plugged with a setscrew and all oil exits through the 1/8 inch plug. From there, oil goes through a filter and returns to the engine through the lower bolt of the "Cylinder Timing Gear Cover Side" (A-6017) which connects to the full-length oil galley. Last edited by Terry Burtz, Calif; 08-25-2019 at 09:40 PM.