The Ford Barn - View Single Post - The Terry Burtz 5 main bearing engine blocks are back on track.

Terry Burtz, Calif · 07-24-2019, 03:09 PM

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Again, this is not an update, but I will try to answer some questions.

Many questions ask about price. I cannot answer because I am not involved in negotiations with the factory. All I can say is that the new engine price will be competitive with a rebuilt engine that has inserts, crankshaft counterweights, connecting rods with inserts, and is balanced.

Hi Terry
Glad to see your project is moving again. Do you know Tod Buttermore? He is also just about to start production on his new model a engine. I'm not sure there is enough market to handle 2 new model a engine blocks. You might want to contact him and see if you can work together and build on fantastic new block.
Thanks, Eric

After the project stalled in California due to lack of quality control, inability to follow a procedure, and spiraling cost, I contacted Tod in Jan. 2015 in an attempt to work with him. Although we are competitors, we have no animosity. Pasted below is our Emails.

Tod Buttermore <[email protected]>
Fri 1/16/2015 9:57 AM

Terry,

I took a quick look at the pattern pictures and I would have to say that none of the foundries around me could use that tooling as it is. Given the work load I have, I don't think I would have time in the foreseeable future to be of any help to you. I would think there has to be a foundry closer to your home that can do that casting. The only reason my foundry can do anything for me is because I am involved. Sorry for the let down.

Tod

Tod Buttermore <[email protected]>
Tue 1/13/2015 4:09 AM
Terry,
Email received. I will look at the pictures and give you my assessment.
Tod

On Tuesday, January 13, 2015 12:20 AM, Terry <[email protected]> wrote:
Hi Tod,
It was good talking with you about the New Model A Engine Project.
I have been working with Lodi Iron Works. When their only technical person in the office retired, this project shifted to the back burner.
Engineering is based on the original Ford drawings of the cylinder block, crankshaft, and connecting rod.
SolidWorks and rapid-prototyping were used to create "masters". These masters were then used to create the foundry tooling.
The machined castings are documented with SolidWorks.
The tooling has produced several good castings if you don't count foundry screw-ups like failure to dry the water based mold wash, failure to fully engage core prints, interrupting the pour which caused a cold shut, etc. Only one good cylinder block without screw-ups has been cast, and that cannot be repeated because the personnel working on the floor that made the good casting are no longer employed at Lodi Iron Works.
The tooling pictures are located in my skydrive. You can access them from the link below:
http://1drv.ms/1dOxxFe
or
https://onedrive.live.com/redir?resi...=folder%2c.JPG
At Lodi Iron Works, all core boxes were filled with PepSet with the exception of the water jacket core boxes.The water jacket core boxes were blown using IsoCure.
The last picture shows the pattern for the crankshaft and the next to last picture shows the aluminum match-plates for connecting rods and main caps that fit Lodi's automated molding line.
Over the next few days, I will send the core assembly procedure, pictures of assembled cores, pictures of castings, and pictures taken in the foundry.
I hope that we can work together to provide this new product to the Model A hobby.
Please reply so that I know that Email works and that you were able to view the skydrive pictures.
Terry Burtz

Hello Terry
I figured the engine project had stalled, and I'm glad to see you're back at it!
Will the block be cast iron?
Best regards, Carl

Yes, the cylinder block will be a cast iron. On drawing A-6015 Ford specified "A" iron. To keep costs at a minimum, instead of us specifying an antique alloy like "A" iron, the alloy chosen will be one that the factory uses for modern engine cylinder blocks.. The main bearing caps, connecting rods, and crankshaft will be a modern malleable iron, and again, it will be an alloy that the factory uses for modern engines. I have asked for properties of these alloys and will be happy to share them with anyone interested.

Good Morning Terry:
When you can quote either parts or and assembled short block please advise.
I have a “B” engine sitting on my Garage Floor but if this new engine were ready to go I think it would be the “real deal”.
Question
How would you handle Engine Block Numbers?
Thank you, Al

We are working with the factory to get quotes on parts, not a short block. The reason for not providing a short block is that most people want to choose the valve train that they want, choose pistons that they want, choose cam and timing gears that they want, along with other variables. Many people also have a collection of parts on the shelf that is waiting for the next rebuild. Regarding engine block numbers, for quality control purposes, after a cylinder block passes final inspection, a unique sequential serial number will be stamped on the machined surface where the A-6017 "Cylinder timing gear cover side" is mounted. On an assembled engine, this number is hidden, but easily accessible by removing a few bolts. The pad above the water inlet on the side of the cylinder block will be blank unless you request that we stamp it. We have the correct stamps with the different numbers (depending on serial number), and we can stamp it for you.

How about creating a go Fund Me page or a Kickstarter page to fund this?
Anne

Thank you for your suggestion. Money is not the problem. Many people have offered to make a deposit, The problem is to find a competent manufacturing facility that can produce a quality product for an affordable price. The project stalled several years ago due to spiraling costs and lack of quality control.

________________________________________
Hello Terry, great to hear you are back on deck with this project. It must be 5 or 6 years since we visited you from New Zealand and you showed us your projects. I will be thrilled to buy one of your new blocks, and head too if you make that. Will the crankshaft go ahead too, or is it too early to say?
SAJ in NZ

For this project, the crankshaft and connecting rods are included. Any head can be used because all interfaces for attaching parts are exactly as original.

When I rebuilt my engine and had it bored out .040, the machine shop would not begin the process of boring and honing until they had the new pistons to mic. Would the new engine need to dismantled, bored and honed?
thanks

Nothing needs to be dismantled. The "new engine" consists of a fully machined cylinder block, connecting rods and a crankshaft. The Ford drawing for machining the cylinder block calls for the cylinders to be reamed to 3.873 to 3.874 inch diameter, and then rolled to 3.875 to 3.876 inch diameter. Rolling does not produce a very good surface for the rings, so the plan is to have a diameter between 3.875 and 3.876 inch diameter with a honed 45 degree cross-hatched surface finish. See the following for surface finish. https://www.hastingsmfg.com/ServiceT...efinishing.htm

07-24-2019, 03:09 PM	#66
Terry Burtz, Calif Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Campbell,CA, USA Posts: 319	Re: The Terry Burtz 5 main bearing engine blocks are back on track. Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) Again, this is not an update, but I will try to answer some questions. Many questions ask about price. I cannot answer because I am not involved in negotiations with the factory. All I can say is that the new engine price will be competitive with a rebuilt engine that has inserts, crankshaft counterweights, connecting rods with inserts, and is balanced. Hi Terry Glad to see your project is moving again. Do you know Tod Buttermore? He is also just about to start production on his new model a engine. I'm not sure there is enough market to handle 2 new model a engine blocks. You might want to contact him and see if you can work together and build on fantastic new block. Thanks, Eric After the project stalled in California due to lack of quality control, inability to follow a procedure, and spiraling cost, I contacted Tod in Jan. 2015 in an attempt to work with him. Although we are competitors, we have no animosity. Pasted below is our Emails. Tod Buttermore <[email protected]> Fri 1/16/2015 9:57 AM  Terry, I took a quick look at the pattern pictures and I would have to say that none of the foundries around me could use that tooling as it is. Given the work load I have, I don't think I would have time in the foreseeable future to be of any help to you. I would think there has to be a foundry closer to your home that can do that casting. The only reason my foundry can do anything for me is because I am involved. Sorry for the let down. Tod Tod Buttermore <[email protected]> Tue 1/13/2015 4:09 AM Terry, Email received. I will look at the pictures and give you my assessment. Tod On Tuesday, January 13, 2015 12:20 AM, Terry <[email protected]> wrote: Hi Tod, It was good talking with you about the New Model A Engine Project. I have been working with Lodi Iron Works. When their only technical person in the office retired, this project shifted to the back burner. Engineering is based on the original Ford drawings of the cylinder block, crankshaft, and connecting rod. SolidWorks and rapid-prototyping were used to create "masters". These masters were then used to create the foundry tooling. The machined castings are documented with SolidWorks. The tooling has produced several good castings if you don't count foundry screw-ups like failure to dry the water based mold wash, failure to fully engage core prints, interrupting the pour which caused a cold shut, etc. Only one good cylinder block without screw-ups has been cast, and that cannot be repeated because the personnel working on the floor that made the good casting are no longer employed at Lodi Iron Works. The tooling pictures are located in my skydrive. You can access them from the link below: http://1drv.ms/1dOxxFe or https://onedrive.live.com/redir?resi...=folder%2c.JPG At Lodi Iron Works, all core boxes were filled with PepSet with the exception of the water jacket core boxes.The water jacket core boxes were blown using IsoCure. The last picture shows the pattern for the crankshaft and the next to last picture shows the aluminum match-plates for connecting rods and main caps that fit Lodi's automated molding line. Over the next few days, I will send the core assembly procedure, pictures of assembled cores, pictures of castings, and pictures taken in the foundry. I hope that we can work together to provide this new product to the Model A hobby. Please reply so that I know that Email works and that you were able to view the skydrive pictures. Terry Burtz Hello Terry I figured the engine project had stalled, and I'm glad to see you're back at it! Will the block be cast iron? Best regards, Carl Yes, the cylinder block will be a cast iron. On drawing A-6015 Ford specified "A" iron. To keep costs at a minimum, instead of us specifying an antique alloy like "A" iron, the alloy chosen will be one that the factory uses for modern engine cylinder blocks.. The main bearing caps, connecting rods, and crankshaft will be a modern malleable iron, and again, it will be an alloy that the factory uses for modern engines. I have asked for properties of these alloys and will be happy to share them with anyone interested. Good Morning Terry: When you can quote either parts or and assembled short block please advise. I have a “B” engine sitting on my Garage Floor but if this new engine were ready to go I think it would be the “real deal”. Question How would you handle Engine Block Numbers? Thank you, Al We are working with the factory to get quotes on parts, not a short block. The reason for not providing a short block is that most people want to choose the valve train that they want, choose pistons that they want, choose cam and timing gears that they want, along with other variables. Many people also have a collection of parts on the shelf that is waiting for the next rebuild. Regarding engine block numbers, for quality control purposes, after a cylinder block passes final inspection, a unique sequential serial number will be stamped on the machined surface where the A-6017 "Cylinder timing gear cover side" is mounted. On an assembled engine, this number is hidden, but easily accessible by removing a few bolts. The pad above the water inlet on the side of the cylinder block will be blank unless you request that we stamp it. We have the correct stamps with the different numbers (depending on serial number), and we can stamp it for you. How about creating a go Fund Me page or a Kickstarter page to fund this? Anne Thank you for your suggestion. Money is not the problem. Many people have offered to make a deposit, The problem is to find a competent manufacturing facility that can produce a quality product for an affordable price. The project stalled several years ago due to spiraling costs and lack of quality control. ________________________________________ Hello Terry, great to hear you are back on deck with this project. It must be 5 or 6 years since we visited you from New Zealand and you showed us your projects. I will be thrilled to buy one of your new blocks, and head too if you make that. Will the crankshaft go ahead too, or is it too early to say? SAJ in NZ For this project, the crankshaft and connecting rods are included. Any head can be used because all interfaces for attaching parts are exactly as original. When I rebuilt my engine and had it bored out .040, the machine shop would not begin the process of boring and honing until they had the new pistons to mic. Would the new engine need to dismantled, bored and honed? thanks Nothing needs to be dismantled. The "new engine" consists of a fully machined cylinder block, connecting rods and a crankshaft. The Ford drawing for machining the cylinder block calls for the cylinders to be reamed to 3.873 to 3.874 inch diameter, and then rolled to 3.875 to 3.876 inch diameter. Rolling does not produce a very good surface for the rings, so the plan is to have a diameter between 3.875 and 3.876 inch diameter with a honed 45 degree cross-hatched surface finish. See the following for surface finish. https://www.hastingsmfg.com/ServiceT...efinishing.htm