[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Yes, there is indeed a VERY heavy point deduction in the interior trim and tops sections. I actually started a response under Barbara's post the other day in response to Peter Mendola's deductions and then deleted it as I felt it would detract from the positive mood of the thread.

For the moment, let's take Marco and Bill Sturm out of the equation because it really is a bigger issue than just Marco or Bill. You are correct in that it does seem that if those two do not do your interior, then you cannot recover however Hunter Fanney actually used a LeBaron-Bonney kit as a starting point on his award-winning Coupe but modified it under the direction of Bill's advice, ....and won, -so just in that one instance it disproves your comment above.

Where I feel the bigger issue with this comes in is many Team Captains use criteria that is NOT in the Standards to evaluate your car with. From an ethics point of view, this is totally wrong however they know it yet still continue to do so even though the Judge is instructed not to use information outside of what is printed in the Stds. In your situation, my opinion is the Stds. needs to be specific in description if there is something they want to see. If they want to see brown tanned leather with 10 pleats and two Nickle-plated grommets, ...then by golly it needs to have that printed. As it is right now, the restorer is at a distinct disadvantage not knowing what a Judge is going to evaluate on.

So as not to put Marco on trial here in this thread, Pete's 180-A had an Aries exhaust system on it at French Lick that received a deduction. Based on a couple of original mufflers I have seen, there are just a couple of VERY subtle differences (i.e. welds, etc.) between the original vs. the Aries that you must study the two for several minutes before those very minor differences even become apparent. More specifically in the Stds. it specifies the muffler was tapered and the pipe was uniform in size from front to rear, ....all of which the Aries has. Therefore the Aries meets the criteria specified in the Stds. yet Pete's gets a deduction because a Judge chooses to step outside of the judging rules and evaluate things his way. Adding additional frustration, some years a Team Captain (who is very versed on Exhaust systems and even given seminars on the topic) has accepted the Aries unit without deduction. Nothing is more frustrating than to build to a score only to have the rules altered on a Judge's whim or ego.

My personal feeling is that while the JSC groups have provided a HUGE service to the hobby through the research efforts and printing the Stds, they have performed an equally HUGE disservice to the hobby in their judging ways. The methods of competition in all facets of sports are different now than what we knew of several decades ago however the Fine-point judging methods often seen are likened to a 19th century Gentleman's Club complete with smoke-filled back room politics. Yes, the thought of that "stings" however this perception was prevalent before I ever became involved in F/P judging, and will likely continue until there is a changing of the guard.

The beginning way to correct all of this is the Judges need to put ethics in the forefront. A Judge should be so transparent with their judging that no one can ever make an allegation or suggest they have done something wrong. Yes, there are Team Captains that have been just as I have suggested where no one even questions their motives however there are others that taint the system for the Club(s).