The Ford Barn - View Single Post - The Terry Burtz 5 main bearing engine blocks are back on track.

Terry Burtz, Calif · 03-15-2020, 09:19 PM

I want to thank everyone that is interested in the new engine parts (Cylinder Block with Caps, Connecting Rods, and Crankshaft). The next update (progress report) will be sent in early April 2020 or shortly thereafter. I want to include photographs of actual hardware in the next update. Below are some of the more interesting questions and comments with replies since the last update in January 2020.

Mr. Burtz

Reference:

http://www.aircraftrecreator.com/fil.../N13691-02.jpg

http://www.aircraftrecreator.com/fil.../N13691-06.jpg

http://www.aircraftrecreator.com/fil.../N13691-08.jpg

I'm building a nearly exact replica of this 1930s aircraft. I
plan on using your engine block assembly as a basis for my
engine. Every component chosen for long term reliability. I
watch your project's progress with great interest. Very exciting.

I'm modeling the entire aircraft in 3D CAD. I have cylinder head,
oil pan, carburetor, etc to model, but no engine block. It would be
a great help if I had an EXTERNAL CAD model of the engine block as
you will be producing it. I don't need any internal details, just the
external casting with all the external machining processes, so I can
mount the oil pan and cylinder head models. Also the exposed end of
the crankshaft so I can mount the propeller hub model and propeller
model.

I will not share this information with anyone. It is only for my own
design/research purposes.

I can use STP files.

Would you share an external CAD model of your engine block?

Thanks and best regards,
Craig

Craig,

Thanks for your interest in the new engine project.

I don't have a model of the exterior.

I modeled the internal cores and machining from Ford drawing A-6015 using SolidWorks 2004, 13 years ago. For the exterior, drawing A-6015 specifies "All walls & fillets to be 5/32 unless otherwise specified"

The exterior of the original cylinder block was sculpted by the pattern makers at Ford and was dimensionally undocumented.

I cut an original cylinder block into 20 pieces and enlarged those 20 pieces 3-dimensionally to create a pattern. This pattern was used for all efforts at Lodi Iron Works until the project stalled in 2015, and the resulting cylinder blocks looked identical to the original.

For the current effort in China, an original cylinder block was laser scanned to create the exterior model using software that is far beyond SolidWorks 2004. I don't have a model of the exterior, and even if I did, I would not be able to open it.

For what you are doing, I would simply measure an original cylinder block and create a model from that. Our efforts are to create an exact model, whereas your efforts are just to get something close.

Are you planning to attach the propeller to the flywheel mounting flange of the crankshaft? If so, this is a very bad idea because it will continuously overload the forward thrust bearing, and it puts bending and radial loads into the rear main bearing that will cause a fatigue failure.

A much better design would be to support the propeller similar to how the pinion is supported in a Model A differential only larger. That is to have the propeller shaft supported with a pair of back to back tapered roller bearings of at least 5-inch diameter, and have the propeller shaft connected to the flywheel mounting flange with a universal joint and splined shaft coupling. Thrust, bending, and radial loads will be supported by the pair of 5-inch diameter tapered roller bearings instead of the 2-inch crankshaft bearing. Clear as mud?

Terry Burtz

Hi Terry,

I am in the Model A hobby (MARC & MAFCA) and someone recently sent me the description of your project to modernize the Model A engine. I’m probably more biased toward originality, but I am impressed by the level of detail you have gone into with your project.

I’ve been an engineer for about 23 years, including about 11 years at an engine OEM which is a subsidiary of CAT. I did a lot of work with their foundry in Mapleton, IL and sometimes had small run prototype castings made from tooling that was 3D printed on an ExOne sand printer. It could print molds and cores up to the size of an office desk and the quality was very impressive. A couple of years ago, I was thinking of starting a side business reproducing rare antique car parts. I found a few casting houses that will make low production and prototype castings with no hard tooling using this type of 3D sand printer. I seem to remember a couple of houses in Wisconsin. I thought you might be interested in this information.

Russell

Russell,

Thanks for your comments and information. I added your Email address to the update list, so you should receive future updates by Email.

Regarding originality, our goal is to provide a product that looks original on the outside but has more modern technology on the inside.

When I was looking for a foundry in 2008 at the beginning of this project, I found a research foundry at the repurposed McClellan Air Force Base near Sacramento, CA that was using one of the mold printing machines.

The machine could print the cope, drag, all cores, sprues, gates, risers, and everything all at once. There was no need for core boxes or patterns, and complex castings with reverse draft were possible. Core shift was impossible. There were 2 problems, 1) Cost would be $2300 per casting, and 2) I did not have a digital model of the exterior of the cylinder block.

Terry Burtz

Dear Terry,

I wrote you earlier concerning the Model A engine project.

As i wrote you before we rebuilding al lot of Ford model A , B And G28T engines and i am very interesting in Offering your new redesigned engines in Europe.

Hopefully we can discuss the opportunities to set up the distribution line direct from China to Europe.

In case of maching the block we have programmed the Ford Model A engine block on our Haas CNC machine.

We are going to several meetings and Markets in Germany,Scandinavie, Holland,Belgium and the UK

On this moment we supply customers with rebuilded engines across Europe.

Hans

Hans,

Thank you for your interest in this project.

We would be happy to work with you and have you be the distributor in Europe.

We need to have a proven product before we release it for sale.

I am replying BCC to Leonard who is a team member that will be responsible for distribution.

Terry Burtz

Hi Terry

I'm Dave, Visalia CA. we talked late last year about your progress on the engine and the possibility of you doing a program at our Central Calif. Regional Workshop in April 10 2020. You wanted me to contact you again after January to give you some time to evaluate your progress on the engine. I can only hope that the Coronavirus in China has not caused your project any serious problems.

Could you let me know as soon as you can since we are beginning to put together the agenda and make arrangements for our Model A Jamboree.

Dave,

Thanks for asking me to make a presentation at the 2020 Regional Workshop at the Jamboree in Visalia.

When I made the previous presentation in Visalia, I used a PowerPoint presentation and was able to display the new cylinder block, crankshaft, and connecting rods from Lodi Iron Works.

The basic design of the new engine has not changed, so there is nothing new regarding design details.

The cylinder block from Lodi Iron Works that I displayed is now in China.

We've had 2 setbacks that have affected the schedule. One is where the engineers in China did not make a lot of progress when they attempted to model the exterior of the cylinder block, and the other is the general slowdown due to the coronavirus.

Modeling of the cylinder block exterior based on laser scanning was completed by CamLogic and given to the engineers in China, and the coronavirus has not completely shut down progress in China.

Our team member, John Lampl has not been able to physically travel to China, however, he sends and receives Emails regularly from China.

I feel honored with your invitation, but need to decline because we won't have new hardware to display.

Terry Burtz

How did China become an economic powerhouse when they shut down factory production for a month for New Year's Day? Oh wait, could it be currency manipulation and other unfair business practices? Terry, what kind of tariffs are you going to have to pay to import the blocks from China?

Unlike America, New Years Day is a huge celebration in China that is long. Look at https://www.timeanddate.com/holidays...pring-festival, and you will see that it is a 23-day event. Tariffs, production cost, tooling cost, transportation cost, storage cost, and other factors have been accounted for. The goal of providing the new engine parts (Cylinder Block with Caps, Connecting Rods, and Crankshaft) at the price of a rebuild (around $3500) has not changed.

What's the latest update? Any prototype blocks being machined yet ?

The latest update will be sent when I have some photographs to show. I expect to have photographs in early April 2020. We don't expect to have hardware for a couple of months. The current effort is tooling production.

How is the Corona virus going to effect your production.

I spoke with John about this, and he feels that it will have a minimal effect compared to manufacturing industries in China that are labor-intensive.

In Terry’s update in January, he wrote:

“It is Chinese New Year right now so factories throughout the country are shut down until mid-February. After the holiday, John will meet with the factory and work with them to have the models from CAM Logic integrated into the design.”

If John went to China in January as planned, I hope he is back and ok.

David

John did not go to China because of the Coronavirus. The model from CAM Logic was sent and the pattern makers are using it. Earlier this week, I received a connecting rod print that I have to dimensionally check. John is in Email contact with the factories in China on a regular basis.

03-15-2020, 09:19 PM	#94
Terry Burtz, Calif Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Campbell,CA, USA Posts: 318	Re: The Terry Burtz 5 main bearing engine blocks are back on track. I want to thank everyone that is interested in the new engine parts (Cylinder Block with Caps, Connecting Rods, and Crankshaft). The next update (progress report) will be sent in early April 2020 or shortly thereafter. I want to include photographs of actual hardware in the next update. Below are some of the more interesting questions and comments with replies since the last update in January 2020. Mr. Burtz Reference: http://www.aircraftrecreator.com/fil.../N13691-02.jpg http://www.aircraftrecreator.com/fil.../N13691-06.jpg http://www.aircraftrecreator.com/fil.../N13691-08.jpg I'm building a nearly exact replica of this 1930s aircraft. I plan on using your engine block assembly as a basis for my engine. Every component chosen for long term reliability. I watch your project's progress with great interest. Very exciting. I'm modeling the entire aircraft in 3D CAD. I have cylinder head, oil pan, carburetor, etc to model, but no engine block. It would be a great help if I had an EXTERNAL CAD model of the engine block as you will be producing it. I don't need any internal details, just the external casting with all the external machining processes, so I can mount the oil pan and cylinder head models. Also the exposed end of the crankshaft so I can mount the propeller hub model and propeller model. I will not share this information with anyone. It is only for my own design/research purposes. I can use STP files. Would you share an external CAD model of your engine block? Thanks and best regards, Craig Craig, Thanks for your interest in the new engine project. I don't have a model of the exterior. I modeled the internal cores and machining from Ford drawing A-6015 using SolidWorks 2004, 13 years ago. For the exterior, drawing A-6015 specifies "All walls & fillets to be 5/32 unless otherwise specified" The exterior of the original cylinder block was sculpted by the pattern makers at Ford and was dimensionally undocumented. I cut an original cylinder block into 20 pieces and enlarged those 20 pieces 3-dimensionally to create a pattern. This pattern was used for all efforts at Lodi Iron Works until the project stalled in 2015, and the resulting cylinder blocks looked identical to the original. For the current effort in China, an original cylinder block was laser scanned to create the exterior model using software that is far beyond SolidWorks 2004. I don't have a model of the exterior, and even if I did, I would not be able to open it. For what you are doing, I would simply measure an original cylinder block and create a model from that. Our efforts are to create an exact model, whereas your efforts are just to get something close. Are you planning to attach the propeller to the flywheel mounting flange of the crankshaft? If so, this is a very bad idea because it will continuously overload the forward thrust bearing, and it puts bending and radial loads into the rear main bearing that will cause a fatigue failure. A much better design would be to support the propeller similar to how the pinion is supported in a Model A differential only larger. That is to have the propeller shaft supported with a pair of back to back tapered roller bearings of at least 5-inch diameter, and have the propeller shaft connected to the flywheel mounting flange with a universal joint and splined shaft coupling. Thrust, bending, and radial loads will be supported by the pair of 5-inch diameter tapered roller bearings instead of the 2-inch crankshaft bearing. Clear as mud? Terry Burtz Hi Terry, I am in the Model A hobby (MARC & MAFCA) and someone recently sent me the description of your project to modernize the Model A engine. I’m probably more biased toward originality, but I am impressed by the level of detail you have gone into with your project. I’ve been an engineer for about 23 years, including about 11 years at an engine OEM which is a subsidiary of CAT. I did a lot of work with their foundry in Mapleton, IL and sometimes had small run prototype castings made from tooling that was 3D printed on an ExOne sand printer. It could print molds and cores up to the size of an office desk and the quality was very impressive. A couple of years ago, I was thinking of starting a side business reproducing rare antique car parts. I found a few casting houses that will make low production and prototype castings with no hard tooling using this type of 3D sand printer. I seem to remember a couple of houses in Wisconsin. I thought you might be interested in this information. Russell Russell, Thanks for your comments and information. I added your Email address to the update list, so you should receive future updates by Email. Regarding originality, our goal is to provide a product that looks original on the outside but has more modern technology on the inside. When I was looking for a foundry in 2008 at the beginning of this project, I found a research foundry at the repurposed McClellan Air Force Base near Sacramento, CA that was using one of the mold printing machines. The machine could print the cope, drag, all cores, sprues, gates, risers, and everything all at once. There was no need for core boxes or patterns, and complex castings with reverse draft were possible. Core shift was impossible. There were 2 problems, 1) Cost would be $2300 per casting, and 2) I did not have a digital model of the exterior of the cylinder block. Terry Burtz Dear Terry, I wrote you earlier concerning the Model A engine project. As i wrote you before we rebuilding al lot of Ford model A , B And G28T engines and i am very interesting in Offering your new redesigned engines in Europe. Hopefully we can discuss the opportunities to set up the distribution line direct from China to Europe. In case of maching the block we have programmed the Ford Model A engine block on our Haas CNC machine. We are going to several meetings and Markets in Germany,Scandinavie, Holland,Belgium and the UK On this moment we supply customers with rebuilded engines across Europe. Hans Hans, Thank you for your interest in this project. We would be happy to work with you and have you be the distributor in Europe. We need to have a proven product before we release it for sale. I am replying BCC to Leonard who is a team member that will be responsible for distribution. Terry Burtz Hi Terry I'm Dave, Visalia CA. we talked late last year about your progress on the engine and the possibility of you doing a program at our Central Calif. Regional Workshop in April 10 2020. You wanted me to contact you again after January to give you some time to evaluate your progress on the engine. I can only hope that the Coronavirus in China has not caused your project any serious problems. Could you let me know as soon as you can since we are beginning to put together the agenda and make arrangements for our Model A Jamboree. Dave, Thanks for asking me to make a presentation at the 2020 Regional Workshop at the Jamboree in Visalia. When I made the previous presentation in Visalia, I used a PowerPoint presentation and was able to display the new cylinder block, crankshaft, and connecting rods from Lodi Iron Works. The basic design of the new engine has not changed, so there is nothing new regarding design details. The cylinder block from Lodi Iron Works that I displayed is now in China. We've had 2 setbacks that have affected the schedule. One is where the engineers in China did not make a lot of progress when they attempted to model the exterior of the cylinder block, and the other is the general slowdown due to the coronavirus. Modeling of the cylinder block exterior based on laser scanning was completed by CamLogic and given to the engineers in China, and the coronavirus has not completely shut down progress in China. Our team member, John Lampl has not been able to physically travel to China, however, he sends and receives Emails regularly from China. I feel honored with your invitation, but need to decline because we won't have new hardware to display. Terry Burtz How did China become an economic powerhouse when they shut down factory production for a month for New Year's Day? Oh wait, could it be currency manipulation and other unfair business practices? Terry, what kind of tariffs are you going to have to pay to import the blocks from China? Unlike America, New Years Day is a huge celebration in China that is long. Look at https://www.timeanddate.com/holidays...pring-festival, and you will see that it is a 23-day event. Tariffs, production cost, tooling cost, transportation cost, storage cost, and other factors have been accounted for. The goal of providing the new engine parts (Cylinder Block with Caps, Connecting Rods, and Crankshaft) at the price of a rebuild (around $3500) has not changed. What's the latest update? Any prototype blocks being machined yet ? The latest update will be sent when I have some photographs to show. I expect to have photographs in early April 2020. We don't expect to have hardware for a couple of months. The current effort is tooling production. How is the Corona virus going to effect your production. I spoke with John about this, and he feels that it will have a minimal effect compared to manufacturing industries in China that are labor-intensive. In Terry’s update in January, he wrote: “It is Chinese New Year right now so factories throughout the country are shut down until mid-February. After the holiday, John will meet with the factory and work with them to have the models from CAM Logic integrated into the design.” If John went to China in January as planned, I hope he is back and ok. David John did not go to China because of the Coronavirus. The model from CAM Logic was sent and the pattern makers are using it. Earlier this week, I received a connecting rod print that I have to dimensionally check. John is in Email contact with the factories in China on a regular basis.