[Hoop]

Karl, I have the greatest respect for the bomber crews of WW2 ... and have to admit that would have been my last choice of assignments.

The subject of scoring air victories is one that remains a huge debate. "Overcrediting" is responsible for much of the misinformation about actual losses.

"However the B17 was certainly a fortress knocking down 23 fighters per 1000 sorties way ahead of any thing else including escort fighters !"

Army Air Forces Statistical Digest. WWII shows victories, in the ETO, 6,098 by heavy bombers, 7,422 by fighters, and 103 by medium bombers. And, I wouldn't bet on any of that. As far as facts, yours are as good as any.

Here's an example you might appreciate:

"? April 1944***United States Army Air Forces vs RAF***An unusual incident involving friendly fire occurred during the Burma campaign when the crew of a US B-25 fired at two approaching aircraft and later claimed to have shot down two Japanese fighters. The fighters were RAF Spitfires, one of which was piloted by New Zealand ace Alan Peart who was recorded by a ground radio unit saying, "Keep clear. The bastards are shooting at us." Both Spitfires returned safely to base, without damage.[35]"

Usually the estimates of claimed victories vs actual start at 2:1 and 3:1 ... to extremes beyond that.

It's the "fog of war." BUT, no doubt about the bravery, skill, etc., etc., of the men who flew them. Very special guys.

(Incidentally, few people are aware that the Spitfire had the landing gear handle on the right side of the cockpit. Who in the hell would do that to an otherwise near perfect airplane?)