Just got Daves Model A, from Lincoln, Ne. done, lots of pictures
 

If any body would like to see them, Hit my name,

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Re: Just got Daves Model A, from Lincoln, Ne. done, lots of pictures
 

Nice Work!

I've heard of a story in pictures, but you just did a novel in pictures.:D
I'll bet taking all the pictures and downloading them took longer than the engine rebuild.:D

I was surprized by the small cam gear timing mark from the factory. I hadn't seen that small a mark before and can now understand why some need to be enlarged a bit to make them easier to find when timing an assembled engine.

Also, the clutch disc surprised me, as I thought everything sold today had the spring center.:confused:

Thanks

Re: Just got Daves Model A, from Lincoln, Ne. done, lots of pictures
 

Thanks, for posting.

Re: Just got Daves Model A, from Lincoln, Ne. done, lots of pictures
 

Great job. Here is the link for those that have not gotten the hang of how to get there as I know there are afew. Rod



http://www.fordbarn.com/forum/album.php?albumid=1352

Re: Just got Daves Model A, from Lincoln, Ne. done, lots of pictures
 

Makes it easy to see why everyone says good things about your work.

Re: Just got Daves Model A, from Lincoln, Ne. done, lots of pictures
 

WOW!!!! Thanks for sharing.
Paul in CT

Re: Just got Daves Model A, from Lincoln, Ne. done, lots of pictures
 

Herm,

Never gave this much thought until now. Were those a matched set of rods? Did you
weigh the rods before pouring? I have turned the big end in a lathe, with a mandril to
lighten the big end. And NO, I'm not trying to start something, just thinking, one
engine guy to another.

Dudley

Re: Just got Daves Model A, from Lincoln, Ne. done, lots of pictures
 

Thanks for sharing the pictures with us!!

Re: Just got Daves Model A, from Lincoln, Ne. done, lots of pictures
 

So jealous, wish I rebuild my engine, so clean at all, thanks for postings the pictures!!

Re: Just got Daves Model A, from Lincoln, Ne. done, lots of pictures
 

Thanks for the pictures. For a guy like me that knows nothing about this sort of thing, this was very educational. Also for guys like me, it would be a great educational tool, to have a short narrative about what you are doing. But I also realize there are many of you that know exactly what he is doing and this would be a waste time.

Thanks again for showing what is done to an engine.

Re: Just got Daves Model A, from Lincoln, Ne. done, lots of pictures
 

Thanks Tom, yes it did take a while with the pictures, but it was fun.

The time gears have been coming to small for years, but this is the smallest one I have ever seen. I think they just marked it so some one else would finish it, like no slots in the pistons, the factory told me I could finish them, I said, no I will just use another companies Pistons.

The parts were not ordered by me, so that is how we ended up with a clutch disk without springs, I have never used one of these before, as once in a while, the old engines we took apart, they wern't in to good of shape! Thanks Tom, Herm.

Re: Just got Daves Model A, from Lincoln, Ne. done, lots of pictures
 

Thanks Mr. 30, and Rod, thats cool, you took the work out of it. Thanks Herm.

Re: Just got Daves Model A, from Lincoln, Ne. done, lots of pictures
 

Herm : my compliments, this is the way to go , clean workshop , clean workbench and machines, clean tools, and ..working with clean hands also. That's the way I work on my car. It pays of. Again my compliments.

Gerard

Re: Just got Daves Model A, from Lincoln, Ne. done, lots of pictures
 

Thats a very good Question D.J., I was wondering how I was going to work the rods in to this. I should tell you the whole story, bare with me. We stoped doing spun poured rods for Model A's, T's, and B's about 5 years ago. as it takes to much time to get a rod core ready for a spinner, as most have been mutilated, for spin pouring, with out making the core ready. I am trying to make this short, My self, as well as the Machine shops we work for are having a hard time finding good rebuilt A, T, and B rods, since we quite spinning them, and yes, I know what that sounds like, but there is no other way to say it. Well Dave, the motor owner ordered a set of rods, for me, and droped shipped them, and low, and behold, they were very usable, except the set was off 36 Grams to balance, ok, I had the vender send another set, off 32 grams, and still couldn't make a set out of both sets. I sent them back, found out who done them, and called the rebabbitter, told him what I needed, and asked if he would let me send a set to be done, and he said yes. The set I sent, was with in 4 Grams. When I got them back with babbitt they were, 5 grams, and babbitt was all stuck good, and a nice clean job. The twist and bend was very close, two off sets were right on, and two were off about 1/8'', and that had to be off when I sent the set to him. The problem with the rods we were getting, and have to send back from every place, is the babbitt is not stuck. One more thing, if any vender, or rebabbitter ever tells you the rods are straight, because the Rod Machine cuts them that way, don't go for it, as there isn't a Rod Boring machine made, will do that, as that is why the rod Aligners. If you want to make a mess out of a motor, use bent Rods. Now, for the last thing, Balancing. As you can see,I start taking weight off the cap with a drill, as the weight removel from the cap being over center, is the quickest. I should say, I use sheet lead, and make lead Jaw liner covers for one of my Vice's, and hold the rod in that to keep from hurting the babbitt on the sides. I DO NOT grind to remove weight from the babbitt end, as there is a big chance of getting sparks in the babbitt, and your rod just turned to Junk. When I am done with the big end, I cover the babbitt end, and grind the wrist pin end, When the rod is finshed, we weigh each rod buy it's self, and they should all weigh the same, if not, we run them through again, until they are. I don't know how close you can get buy with, some say 4 grams, but we always Zero every thing we balance, as Zero should be close enough.

Thanks D.J., Herm

Re: Just got Daves Model A, from Lincoln, Ne. done, lots of pictures
 

Nice work Herm. You do not see work that good to much now days.

Re: Just got Daves Model A, from Lincoln, Ne. done, lots of pictures
 

Thanks for all for nice comments, it means a lot comings from all you Guys, but like D.J., and Tom, if you got any Questions, ask away. I am sure there are many things done differently then what you have seen there. Thanks Herm.

Re: Just got Daves Model A, from Lincoln, Ne. done, lots of pictures
 

Herm,

Thank you for the information. Would you explain " spun poured " vs what ever
other type of pouring and how it's done?

Thanks again, Dudley

Re: Just got Daves Model A, from Lincoln, Ne. done, lots of pictures
 

Ok, D.J., I have some 20 Albums on my profile, and some show our spun poured rods, and the spinning machine we use. The problem is the price only. If we had Ford rods that were not repoured by some other companies years ago, we could compete in the Ford rod rebuilding, but we have to pour the rod in one piece, to do that we have to machine the caps flat, as they are always not, and if you don't, as you tighten the cap, it will break the Tinning bond from twisting to level itself. Many of the A rods that Ford made, will need the insides rebored, as there were many, and I know at least one today, and they do alot of rods, that they Pull the rods apart to rebuild, and all the caps go in one container, and the main rod bodies go in to another container, and never see each other again, unless by accident, and nothing will ever mate again, so if we got rods in like that, and it was often, we had to start over, also the biggest problem with not keeping the cap with its own rod, as you know is balance. We also had to make our own shims, as we do with all the cars, and tractors we do, as, the shims have to encircle the bolt, as if you use Horse Shoe shims, the spinning would fill the bolt area with babbitt, and the cap would not come off. but a spun poured rod is clamped under air pressure, and the machine turned on, and it runs about 1700 R.P.M., as it does that, centrifugal force, or pressure, pushes the babbitt out to the shell until it hardens. Now, cam bearings, that are maybe a 1/2 " Wide, up to may be 4" inches, and longer, it doesn't, matter on I.D., the only way you can rebabbitt them is by Spinning if you want a 100 percent bond. That go's for Model T cam bearings, and Ball caps also. Here is what is the matter with a bearing that is poured in one piece, such as cam bearings. Lets say you have a set of cam bearings out of a Packard. If you try to Jig pour that continuous bearing circle, the shell is thin, after you remove it from the engine, the bearing will be about 1 to 2 thousandths smaller in O.D. then when it was new. When you spin it, the shell gets heated to 610, to 640 degrees,, so the shell expands to the size it was when New, so you have crush to put it back in the block, to hold it in place again. While the shell is expanded, the molten babbitt is expanding out to hold the shell at that size until the babbitt hardens. Now I don't care what kind of Static Jig you make, when your pour a circle shell, rod Ect., as soon as you take the heat off the shell, it will start to shrink. Then it will expand a little again, but the shell on a Static Jig poured circle will always shrink down, before the molten Babbitt, so it will hold the expansion on the shell to the O.D. size you need. The other bad thing that happens, and you can't stop it is, the shell has cooled, and has shrunk, then the Babbitt cools, and it shrinks smaller than the shell, and pulls it's self away from the shell, breaking the tinning bond, as you can see the cracks under Glass, and you can also hear little Klink's as it cools, and that's a sure sign. Now with that said, there is no doubt in my mind that a Jig poured rod, 1/2 at a time, or inserts at a time, if done right are equal in durability, to a Spun poured bearing. Key words (Done Right). I know I couldn't have answered all you Questions, so ask again, and I can tell you more then I know again. Thanks Herm.

Re: Just got Daves Model A, from Lincoln, Ne. done, lots of pictures
 

Kohnke, in the photo with the front pulley in the lathe, are you cutting the seal surface undersize for a particular seal that is available, or are you thinking a few thousands of a cut won't make any difference with a standard size seal?

Loved your comprehensive photo essay a great contribution to the rest of us.

I am surprised in your method of weight removal on the caps. It seems very labor intensive. Would it be feasable to remove enough weight from the rod studs by grinding? You could protect the bearings against contamination. Just wondering if there is enough length to remove as much weight.

Again, thanks for all of us for your efforts.

Re: Just got Daves Model A, from Lincoln, Ne. done, lots of pictures
 

Thanks very much Russ for your kind words. The first thing, the pulley is a brand New one, a one piece, Dave wanted. Although the seal area was smooth, if you went down on it length ways with your finger nail, you could feel the scratches. Not Good Enought, I used the lathe just to spin the pulley fast, and went from 600, to 1000, to 1500, to 2000 paper. Now the rod balancing, in the case of the Model A, we drill the large end, but we cover and grind the wrist pin end. We take what is safe off the cap first, and if we need more, we go around the rod hole, I should say here, the 4 rods were with in 4 grams, that I picked for a set, before rebabbitting, ( NOT BY ME) They came back with in 5 grams, the same rods. If you are over 10 grams apart on a set, you will have trouble balancing them, any thing we balance, we shoot for ZERO, not just with in limits. The bolts, if they have the right amount of shims, the castell nut should come out even with the Key hole. Many A rods the end of the rod bolt sticks past the castell nut very slightly and are, or should be, tapered so the nut should start, even if the bolt was used to beat the assembly out of the motor once. Ok, the last thing would be drilling, compared to grinding, to me it is a nicer looking job then grinding, it is safer, and don't have to cover for drilling. and buy the time I get the rod covered, and it takes a while to grind, and the rod gets hot, so you have to cool, I can remove 2 to 3 grams in about 5 Minutes. The very best thing, I can remove weight in any place so you don't weaken the rod structure. You cant always do that with grinding. Thanks Herm.