The Ford Barn

The Ford Barn (https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/index.php)
-   Model A (1928-31) (https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=3)
-   -   Can't separate axle shaft from carrier (https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showthread.php?t=281881)

bavArian 05-31-2020 09:53 AM

Can't separate axle shaft from carrier
 

Hello guys,


I'm starting to go insane over here. I've removed the rear end, disassembled the diff but I can't get the da**ed axle shaft off the carrier! The side without the pinion ring simply slid off, but the drivers side axle shaft can't be removed. I can push it maybe 1/10th of an inch until it tilts and seizes up and can't be turned anymore. Has someone experienced that problem before and knows a way to get the 2 parts apart? Unfortunately, I don't have access to a hydraulic press, so I can't press them out.
Any thoughts on what I can try? Hammering and shouting isn' working.:(
Thanks and have a nice day,


Daniel

Jim Brierley 05-31-2020 10:59 AM

Re: Can't separate axle shaft from carrier
 

Never heard of that problem! Is it possible the axle has worn a deep groove into itself, and just needs to be centered in order for it to slip out??? Good luck!

bavArian 05-31-2020 11:41 AM

Re: Can't separate axle shaft from carrier
 

That was my first thought too, but even when my helper centered it and I pushed it or hit the threaded end of the axle with a hammer, it immediately tilted to one side and seized up upon traveling a certain (very small) way. (the axle shaft is basically scrap anyway)
It feels like a part of the surface of axle or carrier has broken out and blocks the shaft as soon as you try to pull it out. I can't see any damages though and when pushing with a small wire down between shaft and carrier, I can push evenly deep at all points. So I guess it's a part of the bearing surface that's damaged OR there's some dirt or a metal flake right before the bearing surface keeping the axle in place.



Weirdly, if the shaft is completely pushed INTO the carrier (normal driving situation) it rotates freely without any problems.


I'm thinking about forcing the axle shaft out with a hydraulic press but I fear that I end up damaging the carrier when doing that.

I don't know if spare carriers are available in the US, but in Germany they certainly aren't.:(


Anyone else have any thoughts on how to tackle that problem?

jw hash 05-31-2020 12:20 PM

Re: Can't separate axle shaft from carrier
 

I trying to fallow you on what you are doing. if you remove the left axle housing and the right hand hub. both axles and the carrier will come right out on the left side. then you take the carrier apart to free the axles.

Will N 05-31-2020 12:26 PM

Re: Can't separate axle shaft from carrier
 

My guess is that the bearing inner race maybe spun and "welded" itself to the axle shaft. You're not going to reuse the bearing I hope, so try removing the bearing with a cut-off wheel.

redmodelt 05-31-2020 12:26 PM

Re: Can't separate axle shaft from carrier
 

"disassembled the diff" The axle is not coming out of the one side of the carrier.

bavArian 05-31-2020 12:41 PM

Re: Can't separate axle shaft from carrier
 

Quote:

Originally Posted by redmodelt (Post 1894031)
"disassembled the diff" The axle is not coming out of the one side of the carrier.


Exactly!


I already feared that it was hard to explain.:D


So step by step:

- removed rear end from car *check*
- removed drivers side axle housing from rear end *check*
- marked and disassembled differential *check*
- removed passenger side axle shaft from carrier half *check*


I'm now stuck at the drivers side axle shaft that's still in the carrier half. The ring gear is removed, as is the bearing on the carrier. I can turn the axle shaft as long as it is completely inserted in the carrier, but as soon as I try to push out the axle it tilts to one side (well, as far as it goes with the little play it has in the carrier) and can't be turned any more. I then have to give the carrier a light hit with the hammer to unseize it, making it impossible to remove the axle shaft because the shaft slides back in place in the carrier. Bear in mind that I can only push the axle shaft 1 or 2 mm in and out before it becomes stuck.

1930 coupe 05-31-2020 02:40 PM

Re: Can't separate axle shaft from carrier
 

Place the nut back on the axle to protect the threads, hold the carrier with some heavy work gloves with the axle pointing down. Slam the end of the axle down hard against a hard surface, the carrier should come off. It may or may not damage something, but it should come off with a couple of hard slams,

bavArian 05-31-2020 03:20 PM

Re: Can't separate axle shaft from carrier
 

Tried that too, didn't work. But I'll try it again tomorrow, maybe I was too much of a sissy. I'm starting to think that there's no other way to separate them, either that way or with a big press...

Roger V 05-31-2020 08:56 PM

Re: Can't separate axle shaft from carrier
 

I believe I have followed this situation. Though you didn't mention it, I assume you have removed the spider gears and the yoke they are mounted on? Usually, it will nearly fall out of the carrier when split (unbolted). At any rate, that is the only normal part(s) that contact that end of the axle shaft so if stuck would prevent removal. Post a picture as the old adage is "a picture is worth a thousand words". It's probably close to 4 AM so we'll have to wait a few hours!

bavArian 06-01-2020 05:26 AM

Re: Can't separate axle shaft from carrier
 

2 Attachment(s)
Of course the spider gears and the yoke are removed. I've attached a picture of the carrier with the axle and one of the threaded end, which is the reason I want to change it out. It looks a bit too beat up for my taste and I'd rather change it now than end up with problems later on the road.

jetmek 06-01-2020 06:32 AM

Re: Can't separate axle shaft from carrier
 

The only reason I can come up with for problem you have is it seized up from someone doing the ol 1 wheel peel and Now has A burr and groove. Id start looking for a center section as well as axle shaft

bavArian 06-01-2020 07:09 AM

Re: Can't separate axle shaft from carrier
 

The new axle shaft is already here, bought a pair as the other was even worse. Weirdly, the passenger side carrier looks absolutely fine and went apart without any problems.
I guess I'll try to get access to a press? Because I don't think it'll come apart with only a hammer.

rich b 06-01-2020 07:49 AM

Re: Can't separate axle shaft from carrier
 

Maybe saw most of the axle off and try the hammer again; maybe losing some force in the "spring" of the full axle length. If no help, it will at least be easier to fit in a press.

Kurt in NJ 06-01-2020 08:32 AM

Re: Can't separate axle shaft from carrier
 

Hold by taper, slam down on block of wood
Or just leave together, replace both parts, most likely ther is excessive damage that will prevent reuse

Roger V 06-01-2020 09:56 AM

Re: Can't separate axle shaft from carrier
 

Of course, but you didn't state the spiders, etc. were removed. I agree with Kurt. If you can't get the axle out it's unlikely the carrier is ok so would not want to reuse it anyway. Maybe John in England has or knows of a carrier that's available.

Jim Brierley 06-01-2020 11:33 AM

Re: Can't separate axle shaft from carrier
 

Someone on this site should have a good carrier that they would part with??? They are pretty common over here, I'll look to see if I have a good one. The axles normally slip out easily, let us know when you find the problem.

Tom Endy 06-01-2020 12:03 PM

Re: Can't separate axle shaft from carrier
 

1 Attachment(s)
The photo shows a two stage failure of a differential I encountered a couple years ago. The first stage occurred when someone put a differential together without regard to carrier bearing pre-load. The bearings were so tight that instead of spinning the bearing on the hub, it sheared to the hub off the carrier on the ring gear side. The differential continued to operate in this manner for a number of years, and with many tour miles; however, it must have generated a lot of heat in the area where the gear end of the axle is located. Eventually it caused the gear to separate from the axle shaft. This was a show stopper and the car could no longer operate.

When I took it apart it all came apart easy. However, prior to the gear separating from the axle shaft it could easily have become distorted enough that it would not have allowed the axle to be removed from the carrier.

Reproduction axle shafts have been known to fail with the gear separating from the shaft as they are welded onto the shaft. The failure I encountered was with an original axle that are not prone to this type of failure, however, the circumstances were unique.

Tom Endy

bavArian 06-01-2020 12:26 PM

Re: Can't separate axle shaft from carrier
 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim Brierley (Post 1894368)
Someone on this site should have a good carrier that they would part with??? They are pretty common over here, I'll look to see if I have a good one. The axles normally slip out easily, let us know when you find the problem.


I'll post the reason for the problem as soon as I can get the shaft out.

I also wrote an email to Bert's this afternoon asking if they have a carrier (half or complete) in stock. If someone on here has one that he could ship over that'd be nice too! Prefereably the complete carrier, as my luck with that car seems so bad that I'll surely have problems mating the old and new carrier halfs up if I only take the drivers side one.:rolleyes:



At the moment, my guess is that the little relief groove that's visible on Tom Endy's picture of the axle shaft (between polished surface and rest of gear) has somehow worn itself so deep into the carrier that the axle can't be removed. :confused:
We'll see as soon as I get it apart...

Ak Sourdough 06-01-2020 01:46 PM

Re: Can't separate axle shaft from carrier
 

If it were mine, I'd put it in a lathe and drill the center of the axle until the gear section comes off. If the axle still won't come out, I'd keep drilling inside the carrier until the axle was just paper thin and it should come off.


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:26 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions Inc.