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-   -   1929 Roadster Cowl Tank Removal (https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showthread.php?t=174765)

1929 Roadster 07-31-2015 11:13 PM

1929 Roadster Cowl Tank Removal
 

New guy here , I am so glad to have discovered this forum today. Have a 29 Roadster with a Model B engine in it . My Dad bought this car in 1963 (which is like buying a 1981 today) for 1200 bucks . After loaning Mom and Dad a ton of $ in the early 90's I ended up taking "Lizzy" in exchange for its appraised value at the time . This car was never really restored in the true sense of the word . Basically it had a B engine dropped in, a paint job with new top and upolstry. I love this car since its been part of my life for 52 years . Recently at a get together I was taking my First Cousin for a spin when she just stopped getting gas. The gas was getting to the carb but not out. This was the 2nd time this happened and fortunately it happened in my long driveway . Rust from the tank was the culprit even though i had flushed out the tank extremely well and I also have an in line filter . Yesterday I took off the carb (Zenith 2) and found the main Jet was plugged with rust and probably lacquer . in fact everything was very dirty , lots of rust. So I decided that I need to remove the tank and give it the same clean & seal treatment that my old Ford 850 Tractor got. I found a thread on this forum concerning a 29 Fordor tank removal and am hoping for some advice before I dig in to it. Interesting enough I have half a dozen Model A books on restoration and service bulletins etc. and not one of them details taking off the tank . Since it has probably never been off I want to proceed with caution and any tips from some of you pros out there would be welcomed ... Thanks Jeremy

Mike V. Florida 08-01-2015 12:11 AM

Re: 1929 Roadster Cowl Tank Removal
 

WELCOME!!

The removal method is the same.

Bob C 08-01-2015 11:49 AM

Re: 1929 Roadster Cowl Tank Removal
 

Mike, doesn't the fordor tank come out from the inside the car
and the roadster from the top?

Bob

Mike V. Florida 08-02-2015 12:28 AM

Re: 1929 Roadster Cowl Tank Removal
 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bob C (Post 1131546)
Mike, doesn't the fordor tank come out from the inside the car
and the roadster from the top?

Bob

Let me double check, but I thought all the tanks come out the same with in the same year.

While I don't have it here the "Model A Ford Mechanics Handbook" describes removal of both the 28/29 style and 30/31 style gas tank.

Randy in ca 08-02-2015 01:38 AM

Re: 1929 Roadster Cowl Tank Removal
 

The tanks on fordors are mounted under the exterior cowl and are attached and removed differently than other 28-29 models. Basically, after all the peripherals are removed or disconnected, there's a row of bolts to the lower firewall, bolts and clamps on each side to the cowl panels and bolts across the top behind the dash panel. Then the tank is lifted up and out towards the front. Pretty much covered in this old thread, good luck:

http://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showthread.php?t=105080

Neil Mylar LakewoodCA 08-02-2015 07:07 AM

Re: 1929 Roadster Cowl Tank Removal
 

The fordor and cabriolet gas tank removal is defintely more complicated and the roadster less complicated, but still a lot of work.
Before you remove the roadster gas tank, you may want to try the hollow leg gas clean out method first.
There should be a previous post with a picture. It is a very ingenious idea. Removing the tank is time consuming and getting the new webbing to fit can be quite a challenge.

Neil Mylar LakewoodCA 08-02-2015 07:26 AM

Re: 1929 Roadster Cowl Tank Removal
 

FYI:
If you do remove the tank, be sure to use cowl webbing and not fender webbing when reinstalling it. Also, the webbing should be painted first.

1929 Roadster 08-02-2015 02:00 PM

Re: 1929 Roadster Cowl Tank Removal
 

Thanks to all who have responded I will keep you posted on my progress ...Jeremy

1929 Roadster 08-02-2015 02:05 PM

Re: 1929 Roadster Cowl Tank Removal
 

Re :Cowl webbing ...Thanks Neil ill see if Snyders has it.

Mitch//pa 08-02-2015 02:08 PM

Re: 1929 Roadster Cowl Tank Removal
 

Why not fill it with evaporust to dissolve the rust...worth a shot IMO

Welcome to the forum

Mitch//pa 08-02-2015 02:13 PM

Re: 1929 Roadster Cowl Tank Removal
 

You could also be getting crap from the cast iron sediment bulb if your running one
There are a few other things I would try first also

1929 Roadster 08-02-2015 05:51 PM

Re: 1929 Roadster Cowl Tank Removal
 

Thanks Mitch ..I have thought of just living with it and continuing my yearly flush out. I drain the gas and coolant out of if every year for the winter and I'm tired of dealing with the rust and rebuilding /cleaning carbs. so I am going for it .. I drain the coolant every year because the year I bought my 31 it froze and cracked the head ..Didn't check it for antifreeze and it didn't have any ..in the spring I found all 4 cylinders rusted and frozen fast since the water ended up in them. Bummer.But what happened next testifies to the durability of the A engine .. I filled each cylinder with marvel mystery oil Inserted my hand crank and started pounding it around with a 10 pound sledge. the first day I moves the crank about 2 inches.. So I kept after it for months until one day I made it all the way around .. Kept after it until I could hand crank it slapped on a another head., timed it and it started up so fast I was amazed ... Good old model A's practically indestructible....

Mitch//pa 08-02-2015 06:22 PM

Re: 1929 Roadster Cowl Tank Removal
 

I'm not asking you to live with it but maybe correct it without dismantling the car.. I have fixed a few permanently this way... Just an easier option to try .
Feel free to pm me for step by step instructions...
Good luck

1929 Roadster 08-02-2015 06:48 PM

Re: 1929 Roadster Cowl Tank Removal
 

Ok Mitch I'm all ears ..I only have the hood & all the front stuff removed .. Havent started. taking the windshield and dash apart yet. What is your option and thanks again ...Ps love the Thompson! ive been trying to send you a PM but haven't figured out how yet.. working on it /

Mike V. Florida 08-03-2015 12:04 AM

Re: 1929 Roadster Cowl Tank Removal
 

Cow magnet

Mike V. Florida 08-03-2015 12:07 AM

Re: 1929 Roadster Cowl Tank Removal
 

1 Attachment(s)
You can also try this;

It allows the rust from the tank to fall past the outlet to the tank. No removing the tank, no damage to the tank, no repainting the tank.

1929 Roadster 08-03-2015 10:08 AM

Re: 1929 Roadster Cowl Tank Removal
 

Am now exploring Mitch 's evaporust option .. One question ive raised with him is that the vacuum tube to the wiper appears to go thru the tank on the lower passenger side. It comes out on the drivers side, up the windshield bracket, possibly under the dash rail. Wondering if it does indeed pass thru the tank?

Bob C 08-03-2015 10:16 AM

Re: 1929 Roadster Cowl Tank Removal
 

No it does not go through the tank.

Bob

1929 Roadster 08-03-2015 11:08 AM

Re: 1929 Roadster Cowl Tank Removal
 

Right you are Bob I see now that it appears to from the engine side but only goes thru the lip and then travels under the tank .

1929 Roadster 08-06-2015 01:48 PM

Re: 1929 Roadster Cowl Tank Removal
 

I have decided not to go with the evaporust option offered by Mitch (thank you Mitch) because of its cost of over 220 $ versus 84$ & tax for the 3 part treatment. The seal I will be using fixed a Ford 850 gas tank that actually had pin hole leaks permanently . So at this point I am almost ready to try to pull the tank out. all bolts clips and things mounted on it have been removed. The problem I face now is the dash arm which was attached to the tank but is now still possibly in the way. It is welded to the dash rail brackets on either side and it is riveted to the supports that the windshield arms are bolted to. These brackets are those that the dash rail is bolted to. The entire assembly is hard joined ..It appears that I may be able to slide the tank out without cutting the dash arm free. Does anyone know if this is possible ...I will try to attach photos when I get time ... Right now the tank is free and loose at all places except on the right and left sides near these dash rail brackets. I have been applying penetrating oil and will do so daily until it loosens up. This is how I have freed the rest of it after 86 years of being together.. Please. advise if you have done and open cab 28 or 29 ..The phaeton, roadster and other open convertible top models should be the same or close. thank you ...jeremy

1929 Roadster 08-06-2015 11:26 PM

Re: 1929 Roadster Cowl Tank Removal
 

3 Attachment(s)
These photos show how the dash arm is riveted to the Windshield post and how it is welded to the rail brackets just to the left of the left hand bolt hole eye. It also is apparent that the brackets also are hard fastened to the windshield post /fire wall post below the right hand lower bolt eye . Has anyone removed a tank with out cutting the dash arm out ? This may have been welded this way at the Factory and probably was as there is no other apparent way to connect the 3 different parts named . It really appears that this tank has never been off the car from jts original assembly

1929 Roadster 08-06-2015 11:42 PM

Re: 1929 Roadster Cowl Tank Removal
 

3 Attachment(s)
Here are a few more shots .. I gently tapped my screw driver into the welting of the seam between dash arm and cowl tank and squirted in PB Blaster penetrant . I'm hoping this same treatment will free up the tank near the dash rail brackets

Mike V. Florida 08-06-2015 11:54 PM

Re: 1929 Roadster Cowl Tank Removal
 

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1929 Roadster (Post 1134396)
The problem I face now is the dash arm which was attached to the tank but is now still possibly in the way. It is welded to the dash rail brackets on either side and it is riveted to the supports that the windshield arms are bolted to. These brackets are those that the dash rail is bolted to. The entire assembly is hard joined ..It appears that I may be able to slide the tank out without cutting the dash arm free. Does anyone know if this is possible ...I will try to attach photos when I get time ... Right now the tank is free and loose at all places except on the right and left sides near these dash rail brackets. I have been applying penetrating oil and will do so daily until it loosens up. This is how I have freed the rest of it after 86 years of being together.. Please. advise if you have done and open cab 28 or 29 ..The phaeton, roadster and other open convertible top models should be the same or close. thank you ...jeremy

I thought by reading the posts here that only the cars that had the extra sheetmetal over the tank like the fordor and the cabriolet needed to be removed by dropping the the tank into the car. Does not the open cars lift out, up and towards the front? I was wrong in my post about years being the same so I'm trying to get it straight for the future. I don't remember reading anything about drilling out rivets.

Neil Mylar LakewoodCA 08-07-2015 12:12 AM

Re: 1929 Roadster Cowl Tank Removal
 

Jeremy,
The unpainted part in your photos (which you are calling the dash rail, post and brackets) DO NOT come out. You do need to make sure that you have removed all the nuts and bolts that hold the tank to that assembly. You should be able to eventually pry the gas tank out. Double check that you got all the bolts.
I always stick a rag in the area at the bottom of the cowl so when I drop a bolt, nut or washer, it does not disappear. There are two bolts (one on each side) that are pretty much hidden.
The disadvantage of removing the gas tank only and not the lower cowl section too, is that the new cowl webbing will not be a continuous piece and might not show well. If you decide to remove the lower cowl too, there is a couple of rivets that will need to be removed at the bottom where it joins the body. You also might need to loosen and lift up on the body to pull the lower cowl out. It is a very tight fit to get it by the motor, too.

My recommendation would have been to tried the dirty leg cleaning method first. If you have not damaged the existing cowl webbing, you might want to reconsider removing the tank.

Neil Mylar LakewoodCA 08-07-2015 12:30 AM

Re: 1929 Roadster Cowl Tank Removal
 

The new webbing might be thicker that the original webbing, because it is always quite a challenge to pull the webbing all the way in place.

FYI: If you are not removing the lower cowl, be sure to compare the new webbing to the old webbing to determine if the restorer had use cowl webbing or fender webbing. If he used fender webbing you will have to match it even though it is not correct.

updraught 08-07-2015 06:33 AM

Re: 1929 Roadster Cowl Tank Removal
 

This is how it comes out. Never taken one out, but I've put one in and it is all bolted:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lsI1jOm24wk

George Miller 08-07-2015 07:31 AM

Re: 1929 Roadster Cowl Tank Removal
 

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1929 Roadster (Post 1134667)
Here are a few more shots .. I gently tapped my screw driver into the welting of the seam between dash arm and cowl tank and squirted in PB Blaster penetrant . I'm hoping this same treatment will free up the tank near the dash rail brackets

Did you get the clamps off the sides, where the tank meets cowl panels. there are 4or 5 on each side.

1929 Roadster 08-07-2015 10:19 AM

Re: 1929 Roadster Cowl Tank Removal
 

George ..Yes 10 of them 5 per side.
Updraught....Thanks This is what I was hoping to hear..The dash arm is clearly visible.
Forever4.... How so? By being cautious?
Neil...Thanks for the tip on the webbing..As I said before...this car was never restored in the true sense of the word..
This tank has never been off the car. I am calling the dash arm the dash arm because that is how it is listed for sale in Snyders Model A parts catalog. It is listed separate from the Dash Rail brackets and this is why I decided to ask you experts if I could remove the tank without removing the dash arm...If you read my posts carefully you would have read that I said it appears that it will come out without removing the dash arm.. As I am a self admitted novice on tank removal i am asking advice . This doesn't mean ive never worked on model A's. I opted to do it this way because it is a better fix and less expensive . Thank you for all your input ..I welcome anything your have to say..even if it is derogatory.... As it stands I have.... the answer to my question and when its all back together Ill post a photo.

I see that Mike's, Mac and Snyder all offer cowl webbing . I will take
your advice on measuring the existing original welting.

Thanks again to all who have posted


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