A question for model A and T purists.
 

I am curious, how would a vehicle be regarded if the following were done? To take an early A or T and focus on the perfection of the machine as a whole, to take every machine cast surface and polish the metal to show no casting imperfections, To finish all painted surfaces to the highest possible quality of finish, in black, to systematically replace all of the fasteners with the exact same style, however in a high polish stainless. to apply every stitch with the precision of a Kings throne, to finish the wood in the highest quality and most flawless craftsmanship. To selectively replace components to exact reproductions in high polish stainless. In other words to exceed factory and go towards the artistic perfection of the machine. Ponder this before you think of it as a disrespect, as it would be done with extreme and total respect to the opinion of the masses as well as the allure of the machine.

Re: A question for model A and T purists.
 

Frank, The answer depends on what you wish to do with the finished product. I've got 30 years as an AACA National judge, so I've seen my share of restored and OVER restored cars. Over restored in my opinion is not going to gain any points in a judged situation, you might loose points. If you just want a smooth better than ever built for your own enjoyment go for it. As an aside I'm restoring an early 1960's front engined rail and I've gone to the trouble of saving all the weld spatter from the original stick welding. It held a National Record in the day with the welds, the restoration will highlight them and other authentic build features. This should be a good thread to fiollow, thanks for posting it. Bob

Re: A question for model A and T purists.
 

:rolleyes:What Frank is pondering really isn't a "restoration" is it?;)

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Re: A question for model A and T purists.
 

If in the early years of Ford motor company, Henry Ford woke up one morning and said, I don't care about cost, I don't care about the efficiency of mass production, I want to make one or maybe many more, of the absolute finest examples of automotive machinery ever produced in the form of one of his A's or T's. Produced to the highest standards, the tightest tolerances with no detail over looked, how would he have produced this vehicle. Lets compare it to a high quality BMW, or Mercedes skunk works auto, where they pull out the stops. Factory produced is done on a budget, to a strict margin, a profit margin can limit the overall quality aspect of an item. Quality can be interpreted to an almost infinite standard. Can a machine that is rebuilt be rebuilt to a standard that goes beyond the quality of the factory standard be regarded with respect among its peers, or must the standard be the factory mark and thus a restoration to factory standard. Points aside, and not classifying as restored, how far up the spectrum of the quality standard is a machine allowed to go, we're talking stock components with excellent attention to detail fit and finish, and beyond stock factory product. To Bugatti standards.

Re: A question for model A and T purists.
 

Did you pick Bugatti because I worked for a Bugatti restoration shop for 14 years or did you just get lucky? We never truned our a car that met the above discription, nobody wanted something above the "As Delivered" condition. I think the car you are dreaming of would in reality be a Grand National Roadster Show or Rydler winner. There was a 1906 Cadillac at Hershey a few years ago in an auction preview, that was way past perfect, and it looked odd to me. Every forged bracket, and casting was ground smooth and flawlessly painted. Great workmanship, but were do you find customers to bankroll those jobs? There is no answer to your question, but everyone will have an opinion to add.:)

Re: A question for model A and T purists.
 

No , I believe one of the standards for quality was a Bugatti Royale, When I was like 6 some one gave me this model of one that was designed to be built by a 40 year old. Its one of the first cars I ever really dreamed of, made of unobtainium. Its just a question to ponder,

Re: A question for model A and T purists.
 

it sounds like a waste of time
lets face it ford was about getting the car out the door at a low cost so everyone could own one.
why would you want to spend 20 years polishing bolt heads.
if it was a restoration shop doing the work then this"car" would cost you $200,000 just to have another model a that functions just like a $30,000 car
but thats just my 2 pennys
tk

Re: A question for model A and T purists.
 

Re: A question for model A and T purists.
 

I think you should do it! Who cares what anyone else thinks? I know a lot of people who own motor homes that spend more on insurance and interest a year than they would have on the hotel rooms they would have stayed in if they didn't have the motor home. But so what? They had fun driving it around, socializing at campgrounds, etc.. So if that's what you want to do, do it! It not something I'd do, but I sure would like to see the finished product just for the fun of it. If you do decide to do it, post pictures of the process on the forum. It would be interesting for many of us.

Re: A question for model A and T purists.
 

It will be your car when you get done. Do what makes you happy.

Re: A question for model A and T purists.
 

Sounds like a Ridler contender only stock.

Re: A question for model A and T purists.
 

Thanks guys this has been a great thing to ponder, wouldn't really care about the pursuit of trophys, would just want the vehicle to not be an oddity, inspired that know one has really been negative. Thanks

Re: A question for model A and T purists.
 

If you go to the Henry Ford Museum, you'll see engines that Ford produced in this manner (parting lines ground down, casting imperfections removed, etc.) for photo shoots and display. He probably had other other components done that way too.

Probably the most famous of these is the T engine painted copper color with chrome accessories.

Ford was about getting the car out the door at the lowest cost (and highest profit), but he was also about promotion.

Re: A question for model A and T purists.
 

In Ford: The Men and the Machine, Robert Lacey relates how one day in 1913, some of Henry’s lieutenants surprised him at the factory with a lowered T runabout finished in bright red and with all of the trim polished to perfection. They were proposing to follow on the success of the T with a higher quality variation. Supposedly he said nothing but proceeded to tear it apart with his bare hands, such was his love for the mass produced Lizzie, and his hatred for the middle-priced Model K that had come before, and to which he viewed this sporty T as a return.

Sounds like you’re proposing what they did, but as a what-if-Henry-had-relented scenario.

To that end, I’ve at times fantasized about what a ‘30 or ‘31 Mercury might have been like, perhaps with a straight six (something else Henry hated).

Maybe if Edsel had been stronger willed...

-Dave

Re: A question for model A and T purists.
 

Seems like a waste of good parts to me. Just my $.02. Dave

Re: A question for model A and T purists.
 

Here's a couple of photos of a smoothie cutaway T engine at the HFM. I have a photo of the copper and chrome engine somewhere, but I haven't found it, yet.

Re: A question for model A and T purists.
 

I always thought it was Fred and Auggie Deusenburg (sp) who made the made the most precise automobile with Rolls and Bentley a half a step behind (or is it in front of) them. Not to take anything away from Ettore Bugatti's Fine cars.
Terry

Re: A question for model A and T purists.
 

I believe that Henry Ford's cars wear probably about as good as they could have been considering the limits of materials and design then. The main problem is probably bearing failure. Bearings have come a long way since 1930, both roller/ball and engine. And lubricants too. Not to mention Meehanite castings, better steels and plastics. And let us not forget Tires! The expected mileage of a tire has increased almost tenfold, especially with the developement of radial tires. The increased voltage and amperage of batteries and gen/alternators has increased the use of more powerful electrical equiptment. There are only a few mods you can make on an A (or T) that don't include changing the part to a more modern Material.
Terry

Re: A question for model A and T purists.
 

Frank The Plumber . . . . . . . . .
Personally, I think that it is just a matter of your own taste.
Some people want to excact duplicate a car, as it left the factory and some people want to show off their craftmanship.
If I was a concourse judge, I would mark down over-restored cars, as not being original. But, anybody can do whatever they want with their own antique cars.
MIKE :)

Re: A question for model A and T purists.
 

Not many T's are ever subjected to concourse judging.