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1wonton 07-24-2014 02:42 PM

Re: message received loud and clear

You're quite right, I have never "pushed" myself "to be the best at anything". I'm just a normal guy who owns an old Model A, that I like to drive. See, it's easier that way, I don't have snivel and whine when I can't have my way. Good thing you're leaving the club, you wouldn't be happy being second. Enjoy looking at your perfect, zero mileage, garage queen.

montanafordman 07-24-2014 02:49 PM

Re: message received loud and clear

Take this with a grain of salt since I have never been a judge and I'm somewhat new to the hobby having only been to one regional meet and one national. Maybe I'm the kid who doesn't know what he's talking about but I'm a quick learner, love to hear how all this works and yes, my generation is the future of MAFCA so if I need to be enlightened feel free!

What I find amazing is how his interior can receive full points one year, and be docked to that degree the next. Having a code like workmanship or incorrect material does little to spell out what exactly is amiss especially when some of those categories cover many parts of the interior. You can get pretty subjective in those areas and in many ways that's unavoidable but you better put your name to your opinion and a detailed reason why. If you don't then that information will die with you, or when asked to tell how you know this either we all learn something or you might be called out for B.S. or playing politics. Information is key which is why we need to encourage participation and research in regards to judging, the judging standards, et al. The last thing we need is to push people away that know a thing or two and have talents and resources to contribute.

The inconsistency of one year to the next in that single area in my mind either stinks of incompetence or complacency one year, or an agenda the next. What kind of corrective measures are in place for judges (or groups of judges) who fail to be objective, or fail to know the nuance of how much of a grain the leather should show? Or fail to spot something like a different padding material used underneath the pleats? These are issues that should be considered by the Judging Standards Committee. This is where it is extremely beneficial to both the judges and the entrants to judge a car over multiple meets and years to bring some consistency to what is being decided on what is correct and what is not. In the case of a large disparity from one meet to the next within one club (i.e. MAFCA vs. MARC) maybe there should be a maximum point difference allowed for various categories in a certain time frame (1 year, 3 years, 5 years?) on cars that have a record of being judged to ensure all judges get the same information and follow the same rules? Kind of like grading on a curve. You shouldn't be able to go from an A+ to a C on the same test with the same answers in my mind. At least not in a year, under the same set of revisions.

Also - aren't some of the judges also on the judging standards committee? Maybe that is a conflict of interest? Maybe it should be proposed that one cannot serve both and there should be term limits for those serving the standards committee in order to ensure what goes on in judging stays impartial, procedures are followed CORRECTLY and an individuals philosophy doesn't control the direction of the group?

Just my uninformed 2 cents....

DougVieyra 07-24-2014 02:53 PM

Re: message received loud and clear

1wonton - "Only a tiny percentage of Model A fans really care about who "wins" a judging contest but no one wants to be associated with an individual who crys about not being "first" then says he's going to quit the club because of it. I surely wont miss him or his attitude."

Well said, 1wonton. That IS the point. No one said 'Life is Fair'. Every aspect of our daily life risks some degree of disappointment or unfairness. It is what life is made up of. After awhile, we grow up and stop complaining. We pick up the pieces and move on.

My 1928 Phaeton won a First Place at the Portland National Meet in 1984. And while I too (few do not) suffered some 'inconsistencies' in the judging, it was NOT the cause that that was the last time I entered it into ANY kind of competition or judging. Focusing on the 'Fine Point', caused me to lose out of MUCH of the FUN that went along with socializing and 'car grazing'. I had reached the 'been there, done that' point. For the last thirty years my '28 Phaeton has been a constant companion, friend, mistress, and daily driver. The judging arena is a combat zone that I do not miss. Again as I said earlier, I understand and sympathize with John Hash's frustration and disappointment. Like me, it may be time for John to just enjoy the car and all the joy it brings to others, and not get involved in the judging world.

- And Brent, 160B, - 'If' and "may have" are an important part of the message that I don't think you give enough weight to. It does allow that the rest of the sentence may not be true.
- "vermontboy" - 'Emotion' does often time cloud 'facts'. And 'attention to detail' has nothing to do with a college education, as Thomas Edison and Henry Ford can attest.

30ccpickup 07-24-2014 03:13 PM

Re: message received loud and clear

Why be a quarterback when you can just be a fan? That does not make sense to me. My hats off to all who are willing to be high point contenders, and to those who judge, if it was easy we all would do it.

prpmmp 07-24-2014 04:55 PM

Re: message received loud and clear

Hey!! No dog in this fight,Honest question,How nice were Model A's from the factory? The quality of craftsmanship is outstanding these days,so are the builds better than the originals? Pete

DougVieyra 07-24-2014 04:57 PM

Re: message received loud and clear

Yeah - I suspect so. I doubt that Henry Ford or Charles Sorensen could qualify to be Master Judges today. Remember, the Ford Motor Company just had to satisfy a customer - Today's 'Fine Point' car must satisfy much harsher critics.

Fred 07-24-2014 05:05 PM

Re: message received loud and clear


Originally Posted by prpmmp (Post 915947)
Hey!! No dog in this fight,Honest question,How nice were Model A's from the factory? The quality of craftsmanship is outstanding these days,so are the builds better than the originals? Pete

By FAR, Originals came with Mixed & matched parts, Many paint runs all over Etc..

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