Lets see those 180 A Deluxe Phaetons
 

Here is a picture of my late (indented firewall) Deluxe Phaeton. It is all original, meaning it has never been taken apart. You would have to see it in person and look underneath the car. My dad bought it in a collection of cars about 4 years ago from North Carolina and gave it to me. I am the cars second owner and I am only 22 years old! The body was painted once according to gentleman we bought it from in 1960. The car was originally all black with apple green wheels. This guys father painted it because the paint was faded he said. The car even has a ford dealer tag at the bottom of the cowl. Anyone ever see this before? I have the original quail cap that was on the car, I just thought the 29 Franklin airplain was a bit more sporty. I recently put the original cap back on the car. It was in a barn since 1962. It had the original interior in it, but I had it redone because it was eaten by a racoon or some other animal. It retained the original pattern and material, and I kept good pieces just to sho people the correct material. Anyone have pictures of their 180 A? Id like to see them, Restored, unrestored. I love these cars, and I think they are by far the best looking Model A.

Re: Lets see those 180 A Deluxe Phaetons
 

woops mispelled airplane!

Re: Lets see those 180 A Deluxe Phaetons
 

Great looking car. Those auxiliary lights are awesome.

Re: Lets see those 180 A Deluxe Phaetons
 

If your dad has any other cars he want to give away, have him contact me. ;)

Re: Lets see those 180 A Deluxe Phaetons
 

first thing that caught my eye was that radiator ornament

Re: Lets see those 180 A Deluxe Phaetons
 

that airplane radiator cap is legit.

Re: Lets see those 180 A Deluxe Phaetons
 

I am pretty sure that Ford never built an indented firewall A180. The body purchase orders were issued prior to the indented firewall being manufactured.

BTW, is Manny your dad? If so, you have a great dad!!


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Re: Lets see those 180 A Deluxe Phaetons
 

Re: Lets see those 180 A Deluxe Phaetons
 

Haha thanks guys for the great comments! And Brent, yes Manny is my dad and yes he is a very great dad. Also to comment back on the firewall topic, I have attached a picture of the firewall on my late 31 180A (I just ran out to the garage and took a photo). I believe I have seen a picture of another one with the indented firewall, but here's the proof that a 180A was made with the indented firewall :) This firewall hasnt been touched since the cars birth. If you notice there is the Ford patent plate, and the 180A Briggs body tag as well right below it.

Re: Lets see those 180 A Deluxe Phaetons
 

ya gotta love the 180As. There is a separate group just for this body style. Can't remember the exact contact info, but the name Ross Milne in Canada comes to mind. Consider yourself very fortunate at such a young age !!! Good luck !!! Don't ever sell it.

Re: Lets see those 180 A Deluxe Phaetons
 

Re: Lets see those 180 A Deluxe Phaetons
 

i do not have one, but wish i did.

Re: Lets see those 180 A Deluxe Phaetons
 

Alex, that is a fine car, very envious!!! Love the auxiliary lights too.
Brent, you have seen and worked on more model A's than most of us here so I don't doubt your knowledge but is there a possible legitimate explanation for this cars cowl?

Re: Lets see those 180 A Deluxe Phaetons
 

Well, I dunno what else to offer. This topic came up when I was personally with members of the MARC JSC at the archives a year or two ago, and later at their meeting as they were discussing this topic. Evidently based on their research there were 3 blanket purchase orders that were given (I do not recall the dates) for the 180A bodies to be manufactured. Due to "unprojected" slow sales of the 180A model, there was still an excess of bodies left over from the 2nd PO (issued early in the 1931 year?) and so the information at the archives showed that Ford renegociated that 3rd PO to be turned into a B400 purchase order. Their (JSC) point was that the 2nd purchase order was given well prior to the May introduction of the indented firewall, and as such there were not any indented firewalled 180A bodies made. Since I have not spoken with Don about his findings, nor have I seen the Dragone car personally, I am basing my comments solely off of the JSC's research.

Tim, when you have a chance maybe you can call Bill Sturm and chat about this since Bill was involved in that research??


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Re: Lets see those 180 A Deluxe Phaetons
 

Brent, my specific knowledge of Model A's is not to the extent of the knowledge that I have about Model T's, but I do know that it is very possibe that Ford could have made a few Deluxe Phaetons with indented firewalls because parts were never wasted. As im sure you know, in terms of model T's, erlier parts were always exhausted in a new model year because why waste good parts? So for a very simple example take the 1915-1916 model years. In very early 1916 Ford cars still retained their brass radiators. Also, 1915 bodies, meaning they had wood seat frames, rivited windshield etc..but still had a 1916 designation. This trend was continued all the way up untill the end of the Model T in 1927. So, if I were to take a very educated guess, in light of Fords trends and to maintane efficiency Ford possibly could have used up any 180 A bodies that were not yet used. I am also sure there were some laying around because I doubt Ford would have ordered the bodies from briggs on a just in time basis (meaning one at a time) he most likely ordered them in larger numbers so there were probably a few laying around at the end of 31. But, FYI look at the picture I posted of the firewall, and as Tim has seen and confirmed, the firewall on my car has not been molested. I personally didnt even clean the firewall,under the car or under the hood for these various reasons...so you can not question the car itself. Anyway I love these debates! Let keep this going and see what kind of research anyone can come up with. Brent can you get ahold of soe of that research you are talking about and possibly post some of the info? Thanks!

Re: Lets see those 180 A Deluxe Phaetons
 

Also Bill and Rustyrim, Thanks for the compliments! And That coupe is also very nice haha! I also have been at the Beardslys cider mill meet for that past two years, I will be there this year again as it is a lot of fun, so look for me ill be there.

Re: Lets see those 180 A Deluxe Phaetons
 

Alex, ironically I am on vacation right now down in Daytona on the Model T Club Winter Tour, ...driving our 1915 Touring. I also serve as the MTFCI Ass't Chief Judge so I am kinda versed on Model T's too.

As someone who has studied Ford and his production methods as my secondary hobby, there is something that many people do not realize. Contrary to popular myth, nothing was manufactured at Ford just by "chance". For example, Ford did not tell the stamping department to make a bunch of firewalls. Instead there was an exact specified amount manufactured for each order from each of his departments. That is why I feel there is no such thing like using up parts to keep from wasting something. The same applies to Briggs. When a P.O. was issued to a body manufacturer (such as Briggs in your case) for XXX amount of bodies, Ford shipped XXX amount of firewalls & tanks to the vendor. I actually spoke by telephone today with two knowledgeable individuals who called me and offered their opinions regarding your car and the TCD firewall. The bottom line is our opinions do not matter and if you are happy with your car, then we need to be happy with you since it is not being entered into any type of club judging competition.

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Re: Lets see those 180 A Deluxe Phaetons
 

Not stir things up but check this site and take a look at all the pictures.

1931 Ford Model A Deluxe


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Re: Lets see those 180 A Deluxe Phaetons
 

seems as though there was more than just one indented firewall DLX Phaeton.

Re: Lets see those 180 A Deluxe Phaetons
 

Of course there are indented firewall Deluxe Phaetons out there. My car is absolutely original. When I say it has never been taken apart, it literally has never been taken apart. The car is very very original except for the 1950's spray job the previous owner did. I too also have a 100% correct 1915 model T touring that if I finish will most likely be able to win an AACA first prize! But anyway Im sure just because Ford ordered these bodies at a certain date doesnt mean they werent used until the end of production. Also there is another one in the link posted by Joop, and Ive seen one or two more. Any thoughts on this one?