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fred93 09-19-2020 02:02 PM

Ignition timing question
 

I will be checking and adjusting (if needed) a friends 30 Coupe ignition timing.

I have read Les Andrews section on timing and I have read many posts here until my eyes started to cross!

My question is: If the timing has been set-up correctly what should I see when using a timing light when the lever is all the way up and also all the way down?

Dick M 09-19-2020 02:18 PM

Re: Ignition timing question
 

If you are asking what you will see with a regular timing light, you will probably see nothing. If you are asking what you will see with a grounded test light attached to the closed point arm, with the ignition on, the spark advance rod all the way up, and number 1 cylinder is at top dead center, you should not see the test light lit. If that is the case, with the ignition on and a grounded test light attached to the closed point arm, begin to bring down the spark advance rod. The test light should come on when the spark advance is down about 1 or 2 clicks. If that is the case, you ae good to go on the timing. If that is not the case, follow Les Andrews timing method. All of this is done with the timing pin in the dimple of the cam gear.

Patrick L. 09-19-2020 03:24 PM

Re: Ignition timing question
 

Timing light ?

It would depend on the type of timing light or if you have a timing strip and pointer set up somewhere.

But, timing should be 0º to close to 40º.

Jim/GA 09-19-2020 03:26 PM

Re: Ignition timing question
 

The procedure and the observations (what to look for in the light) that Dick M posts is correct. Spot on.

I help lots of people "time" their Model A engines and the most common error I find (the reason they have contacted me) is that they have confused in their head if they want the light on or off with the spark lever all the way up. So instead of having it OFF with lever at the top, and come ON with 2 or 3 clicks, they have it ON at the top, going OFF with a few clicks. That is backwards! When they do that, they are on the wrong side of the cam lobe and the timing is way off.

As a final QC check on your timing, once you think you have it correct and are reassembling everything, gently turn the rotor clockwise with your fingers to take up any slack and the trailing edge, the lower right corner of the big brass tab on the rotor should be opposite pin #1 inside the distributor cap. If it's not close to that pin, you have somehow messed up; do it again. (I do this quick check at the start, right after I get the timing pin dropped into the cam gear, before I loosen anything up. You can spot a lot of timing problems with this one check.)

:cool:

Jim/GA 09-19-2020 03:28 PM

Re: Ignition timing question
 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Patrick L. (Post 1933274)
Timing light ?

It would depend on the type of timing light or if you have a timing strip and pointer set up somewhere.

But, timing should be 0º to close to 40º.

I think he means a simple test light that connects between the points arm and ground, to show points closed or open. Not a flashy timing light.

;)

.

Jeff M 09-19-2020 04:12 PM

Re: Ignition timing question
 

I have a hard time feeling the dimple.

Patrick L. 09-19-2020 04:55 PM

Re: Ignition timing question
 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim/GA (Post 1933277)
I think he means a simple test light that connects between the points arm and ground, to show points closed or open. Not a flashy timing light.

;)

.





That was the reason for my question. He mentioned timing light and not test light. Two different animals, as we know. It seems many folks here try to use timing lights, so I thought that is what he meant.

I might well have taken his question wrong thought. Probably did. Maybe we'll know soon.

I've never quite understood the confusion over timing these monsters or using a timing light for doing it. But, I try to answer the question as I understand it. This wouldn't be the first time I didn't understand what was being asked. :D

Big hammer 09-19-2020 05:55 PM

Re: Ignition timing question
 

Adjust the points gap first before monkeying around timing, I like Tom Wesenberg's set it and forget it !

1crosscut 09-19-2020 07:10 PM

Re: Ignition timing question
 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeff M (Post 1933292)
I have a hard time feeling the dimple.

Instead of using the timing pin use a short phillip's head screwdriver to find the dimple.

Bob from Northport 09-19-2020 08:06 PM

Re: Ignition timing question
 

If you use a timing light. you will need a degree indicator that mounts to the front of the engine and sits over the crank pulley. NuRex sells them. The timing can be adjusted in small increments if you have it set manually to a close degree. Full retard should be about -5 degrees. Full advance should be about 22-24 degrees. NEVER 40 degrees as someone suggested. You would burn the engine up and melt the exhaust. My shop times every car to those specs and they all run and start great.

wmws 09-19-2020 08:13 PM

Re: Ignition timing question
 

There should be a 40* range between full retard and full advance. I set mine from 10* ATDC to 30* BTDC. I agree 40* BTDC is way too much.

fred93 09-19-2020 09:02 PM

Re: Ignition timing question
 

2 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by Bob from Northport (Post 1933387)
If you use a timing light. you will need a degree indicator that mounts to the front of the engine and sits over the crank pulley. NuRex sells them. The timing can be adjusted in small increments if you have it set manually to a close degree. Full retard should be about -5 degrees. Full advance should be about 22-24 degrees. NEVER 40 degrees as someone suggested. You would burn the engine up and melt the exhaust. My shop times every car to those specs and they all run and start great.

Thanks Bob--Yes I have the NuRex Timing set-up.

The owner is complaining that the car lacks power. I wanted to see where the timing is currently set before I start changing anything.

I set up a "test light" and I checked the timing that way first. I had no light with the lever up all the way. The light did not come on until the lever was almost to the lowest position. I assumed that the timing is way retarded, but I will be hooking up a "timing light" to actually see how far off it really is.

Once I had find where the timing is right now, then I will start making my adjustments.

My reason for the original question was that I wanted to have a target to aim for.

I checked the compression and came up with #1--60psi #2--55psi #3--55psi #4--53psi (these figure were when the engine was cold--I know that it is normally done with the engine at operating temp but I had the spark plugs out to check them and I didn't want to put them back in (hindsight is always better than foresight) I will be checking the compression again at normal temp later).

I noticed that the spark plugs were very sooty, like it has been run too rich, however that could also be caused by incorrect timing? I will be installing new plugs.

Bob from Northport 09-19-2020 09:08 PM

Re: Ignition timing question
 

He's probably got the GAV open to far and fouling the plugs as he drives. Sounds like you're on the right track!!

P.S. 09-19-2020 09:56 PM

Re: Ignition timing question
 

Good timing (pun)! I just posted a video about Model A timing: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oaCZ5lB9EJ4

Patrick L. 09-20-2020 06:25 AM

Re: Ignition timing question
 

Base timing should be [ or about] at TDC [ 0º ]. Full advance timing is 40º as designed by Ford.

I'm in agreement that these monsters don't need 40º, but, thats what that left lever is for.

Now that we know a test light, instead of a timing light , was used it makes the job much easier. A test light or continuity meter across the points will quickly show when the points are open or closed.

Just make sure the points are adjusted prior to setting the timing.

Bruce of MN 09-20-2020 04:12 PM

Re: Ignition timing question
 

If you want to limit the travel of the lever:

https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showp...2&postcount=23

mhsprecher 09-22-2020 07:32 AM

Re: Ignition timing question
 

This is a great thread. I have been timing my cars recently and this information provides very helpful background information.

captndan 09-22-2020 10:52 AM

Re: Ignition timing question
 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeff M (Post 1933292)
I have a hard time feeling the dimple.

I had one that was so full of crud you could not feel it. had to pull the cover.
If you do be sure to drill the dimple out a little.

fred93 09-30-2020 12:59 PM

Re: Ignition timing question
 

Quote:

Originally Posted by captndan (Post 1934089)
I had one that was so full of crud you could not feel it. had to pull the cover.
If you do be sure to drill the dimple out a little.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bob from Northport (Post 1933387)
If you use a timing light. you will need a degree indicator that mounts to the front of the engine and sits over the crank pulley. NuRex sells them. The timing can be adjusted in small increments if you have it set manually to a close degree. Full retard should be about -5 degrees. Full advance should be about 22-24 degrees. NEVER 40 degrees as someone suggested. You would burn the engine up and melt the exhaust. My shop times every car to those specs and they all run and start great.

Thanks for your reply--- I finally got back to the timing read out--

With the NuRex degree indicator--

1--With the timing light hooked up (and without making any adjustments) the timing with the lever all the way up, the reading was approximately 25* to 30* retarded.

With the lever all the way down, the reading was 5* retarded.

2--I adjusted the points (to .018") and replaced the rotor (it just did not fit snug against the distributor shaft) I also adjusted the rotor to cap gap to .025" .

I then adjusted the timing (making it more advanced).

The reading after all that was :

With lever all the way up---5* retarded.

With the lever all the way down--45* advanced.

With the lever half way down---30* advanced.

Seems to me that I need to adjust again so that with the lever all the way down I would have 30* advanced.

Thoughts on this please!

duke36 09-30-2020 01:22 PM

Re: Ignition timing question
 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeff M (Post 1933292)
I have a hard time feeling the dimple.

You can use a mechanics mirror ($4-5) and small led light and look inside the cover hole to see the dimple centered (At TDC with rotor close to the #1 distrib cover contact, etc.).


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