Am I shifting wrong?
 

I read that lugging the engine is not good so I try to avoid it but the when i slow down to make a turn its kinda hard for me to not do it. When I'm approaching a turn onto a residential street in 3rd gear I apply the clutch/brake make turn and then ease off clutch and keep rolling in third. This driving style causes lugging. So I thought I'd try shifting down to 2nd in to my turn and speeding back up to 3rd. Problem is when I do that the gears grind trying to put it into 2nd. I have to let engine rpm slow down a lot for it to engage properly. So much that it looks like I'm trying to make a complete stop. Am I not doing it right?

Re: Am I shifting wrong?
 

You have a shifting sensibility developed in the era of fully synchronised shifters.

This ain't the Model A.

Try this. In third depress the clutch pedal.

Put the shifter lever at the middle of the "H" pattern (neutral but not marked as such on the model A)

Then let the clutch pedal out.

Then put the clutch pedal back in.

Then put the shifter lever into 2nd gear.

Then let the clutch pedal out.

Voila. Shifting to 2nd gear from 3rd without clashing gears.

Called "double clutching" and practiced the world over with straight gear non-synchronised transmissions. Works between any two gears. Even reverse (but don't try it unless you want to snap a driveshaft.)

I even do it on my John Deere 110 lawn tractor.

Joe K

Re: Am I shifting wrong?
 

I think you left out the part about reving the engine slightly in neutral when downshifting (3rd to 2nd or 2nd to 1st). Your method works fine for upshifting (1st to 2nd or 2nd to 3rd).

Charlie Stephens

Re: Am I shifting wrong?
 

Thank you. All corrections encouraged. And yes, one of those things that eventually become "instinctive" and not necessarily remembered.

Like touch typping...

Heh.

Joe K

Re: Am I shifting wrong?
 

The model A did not have a syncro tranny so it is best to double clutch. Instruction on the driving and shifting of the A can be found in the owners manual. A copy can be found online at http://www.motormayhem.net/mode-a-fo...owners-manual/

Re: Am I shifting wrong?
 

Here's my opinion on FLATLAND lugging: With it's LOW compression, the Model A is a proficient lugger, main thing, is to accelerate from a lugging condition slowly & gently. FULL throttle from a lugging condition, or when on hills, I feel would be "tough" on the engine! On HILLS, jist grab a lower gear, so's she'll be REVED up & running freely.
Model A's ain't no "pussy cat", fragile, old car & I NEVER heard of breaking a drive shaft from shifting wrong!! As to shifting problems, you have to learn to adapt YOURSELF to the transmission, NOT visa-versa! It's design IS what it IS!
Bill W.

Re: Am I shifting wrong?
 

When you shift into neutral you need to speed the engine up then into 2nd.

Bob

Re: Am I shifting wrong?
 

or buy a Mitchell tranny (syncro) for $2200. or double clutch

Re: Am I shifting wrong?
 

I know for sure i double clutch accelerating but never really payed attention when I'm decelerating. Prably because I'm too busy thinking about the lugging noise. But I know for sure I wasn't revving a little before shifting down. Ill have to pay attention to if I really was double clutching going down in gears and especially try the revving part.

Re: Am I shifting wrong?
 

Second to third is a big jump in gear ratio, so when you shift down from 3rd to 2nd, you'll find you need to rev the engine more than you thought while in neutral during the double clutch.

Sometimes I shift down, but often I take turns in high gear and do just as Bill said, accelerate slow and easy.

Re: Am I shifting wrong?
 

How about retarding the timing a bit while gently accelerating in 3rd if you don't double de-clutch to 2nd?

I've also fanned the clutch a bit, but that's rather a sloppy way to go about reducing lugging....

Wasn't most of the concern about lugging from MG's which tended to bang the big-end babbitt when under-revved?

Re: Am I shifting wrong?
 

I'm glad I'm not the only Model A owner that has trouble going from third to second.
I use the Jack Bahm method of shift from first to second ( normal shift ) then double clutch into third. on the way back down I double clutch give the engine a rev some times I get it in, some times I crunch.

Re: Am I shifting wrong?
 

you can use hand lever to raise the RPM"s a bit then smothly ease it into 2nd its fun!! took me about 6 months to really get the feel for silent shifting

Re: Am I shifting wrong?
 

Double clutching. As said when you down shift to 2nd rev up your engine when in neutral while shifting down. Don't over rev just enough to match the 2nd gear speed.

http://youtu.be/oMeHUTw9jkk

Re: Am I shifting wrong?
 

I had been taught never to 'freewheel' through a turn by leaving the clutch in. When you do that you don't have power to the wheels, limiting your control.

I, too, either downshift or let her 'gently' lug just a little bit.

Re: Am I shifting wrong?
 

For what it's worth I've own 6 manual and 2 automatic transmission cars ever... 25 ypyears of only manual transmission.., after 7 weeks, slow double clutch up shifting is simple, and still getting the double clutch down shifting down.

Re: Am I shifting wrong?
 

Agree, I don't 'coast' thru a turn with my foot on the clutch; this is not necessary. Brake as needed; it won't stall. While driving ANY stick shift car, not just the A

Upshifting from 2-3 with non-synchro straight cut gears is way easier than down shifting same. It takes a while to get the feel for how much rev you have to apply while in neutral. Shift more slowly, even on upshift, it will shift easier.
And be sure your idle is set back as low as it can that makes shifting easier, too

Re: Am I shifting wrong?
 

So in 3rd:

Clutch in, shift to neutral, clutch out, rev engine, clutch in, downshift to 2nd...

Re: Am I shifting wrong?
 

If you can shift up OK, then this probably isn't a problem. What gear lube is in your tranny? 600w is about 250 weight, if your lube is too thin, it can make it harder to shift, because the gears don't slow down fast enough. I can go down into 2nd around 20 mph with no problem.

Re: Am I shifting wrong?
 

That's not really double clutching... unless you want to call depressing the clutch pedal twice doubleclutching.. which it is not. You don't need to depress the clutch pedal twice to shift up to the next higher gear, but you should "double" clutch " to downshift. Which is, As some have described well by matching road to engine speed to shift smoothly to the next lower gear.
Unfortunately there are many inaccurate "youtube" videos.