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When is a "Model A" no longer a "Model A" Read a comment in another thread that raises a question for me. The comment was " I get really peeved when I see a chopped and lowered Model A with a V8 engine and automatic transmission listed as a Model A. IT IS NOT!". So, when did they cease to be a Model A??. Is a car converted to 12volt still a Model A?. How is that any different than putting in a SBC and TH350? Does an Alternator make it cease to be a Model A?, juice brakes?. Is the installation of a flathead V8 any better (more acceptable) than a SBC?. If so, why?. How about my fordor. It's all stock but I added a second tail light and signals. Is it no longer a Model A?.
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Re: When is a "Model A" no longer a "Model A" They may not be a Henry Model A anymore, but imagine they are titled and registered as a Model A. So a point can be made for advertising they are a Model A?
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Re: When is a "Model A" no longer a "Model A" In the US, the First Amendment of the US Constitution allows any person to call their vehicle whatever they would like. So the person calling his chopped hotrod/rat-rod a "Model A" is totally fine. If you would like to call it a "Rust Bucket" or "A Piece of S#%t" you are totally fine too. Everyone is good in that situation.....just don't go and try to cause harm to the other person or to the other person's vehicle just because you do not like what they call their vehicle. (there are laws forbidding/protecting you/them from that.)
So no worries......just live with it.....and be thankful for the right to call your vehicle whatever you would like. Brad in Maryland |
Re: When is a "Model A" no longer a "Model A" Is a '55 Chevy with a big block not still a '55 Chevy? What about a '68 C10 with an LS?
A Model A with a Flathead or a Hemi or a Pinto engine is still a Model A. Is it stock or original? No. Is it still a Model A? Yup. Now you must ask yourself, "Is my Model A that's had myriad modifications over the past 90 years still a Model A?" How many Model A's are out there that are honestly "unmolested"? Leakless water pump? Ooops, not a Model A! LOL |
Re: When is a "Model A" no longer a "Model A" opinions may vary.......................
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Re: When is a "Model A" no longer a "Model A" Difficult question, I'd guess that most people have their own definition about what is a "Model A". (applicable to just about ANY other car)
For me, a "Model A" is a "Model A" as long as it looks and drives mostly like back in the 20s/30s. If you switch the R4 for a V8, that's not a classic "Model A" anymore. Sure, the rest of it is still a Model A, but the character of the car changes. It's the same with chopped cars or cars running around without runningboards. That's just not right in my book. If you look at a 90 year old car, you should see a 90 year old car, not something that started to be popular 20 or 30 years later. The only thing that's fine (if the owner appreciates it) are safety-related upgrades that don't alter the look of the car. Let's face it, the traffic has grown exponentially compared to the early 20th century, so if you want to run juice-brakes because it makes you feel better, do it. |
Re: When is a "Model A" no longer a "Model A" this subject is not new to the Barn.
ronn up above has the correct response..... |
Re: When is a "Model A" no longer a "Model A" The car or truck will be a "Model A" as long as the state issued title says it is a "Model A." Anything else is opinion. he-he.
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Re: When is a "Model A" no longer a "Model A" If the car was built as a Model A, then it is a Model A. Regardless of changes over the years. Now the debate over what is 'original', 'unrestored', 'factory correct', 'like new', can go on and on and on and...............
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Re: When is a "Model A" no longer a "Model A" Ford the industrialist massed produced units that he immediately turned into cash,when the unit lost its ability to be turned into cash he retooled and produced a unit that did.
Clubs created a standard to build to,which allowed a pecking order,a hill to be climbed.Those who attempt to climb that hill hold the standards dear,its the basis for their achievement. Those who choose to reject the standards and build as they desire are shunned by those who draw their strength from the standard. It becomes a religion,believers cant tolerate those who don't believe. Whats amusing is the car endures,the unit the industrialist produced far exceeded its expected life and defies tradition and rigid beliefs..one is being restored today,another is being customized.. |
Re: When is a "Model A" no longer a "Model A" It's no longer a model A when the serial numbers are removed !
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Re: When is a "Model A" no longer a "Model A" For me if you use a Henry Ford body and frame it would be a model a. Just because ones freedom of expression was to change it to his or her taste doesn’t take away its a model A ford. It maybe a hotrod streetrod RATROD kustom or just a piece of crap. It’s still ford and the shell can be brought back to the way it was when Henry built it. Call me old but as a hotrodder for 40 years I am really appreciate a stock Model A or V8 ford more . So I will bring my 32 ford back to stock and would love to find a bone stock 1932 truck. .
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Re: When is a "Model A" no longer a "Model A" I was at a show where one of the trophy categories was "oldest car". My '31 stock roadster lost to a '27 T bucket full rod. The only thing Model T about that car was the bucket. Even that could have been fiberglass....should have checked. While I agree that opinions vary regarding authenticity, sometimes they get ridiculous. And you cannot believe what the DMV registration says because I know of several local cars mis-registered. I have a '36 Auburn boattail replica registered as a 1936 car because it was registered as such in the state where it came from. I never represent it as an original car.
Glen |
Re: When is a "Model A" no longer a "Model A" It is always a model A , whether it be original or modified .
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Re: When is a "Model A" no longer a "Model A" I suspected that the opinions would be all over the map. That's OK. Personally, while i don't always understand (or like) what some people do to their cars, I support whatever it is if it makes them happy. However, I find it hard not to feel more than a bit sad when someone buys a nice restored stock car than proceeds to chop it and hot rod it. If you are going to do that I would like to see it be a car that was just pulled from the bush. Be that as it may, it IS their car and they are fee to do what they want with it. I have a variety. I have a '28 tudor that is chopped, on a TCI chassis, 327 Tri-power, TH350, ford 8", my truck (avatar), '31, 350/350, 8" ford rear, a '31 deluxe delivery still under construction that will be a "restomod" with a boxed frame, GM rear with triangulated 4 link, Mercedes 4cyl diesel/mercedes 4 spd with a 4" drop axle, split wish bone, 16" wire wheels, stock fuel tank and dash/gauges. Other than the lower stance and the wider wheels, it will LOOK stock inside and out. Then, of course, my '31 fordor that I am doing the engine in right now. Other than the added tail light and signals I want it left as stock as possible. When driving it (and I LOVE driving it), I want as much of the "model A" experience as i can get, warts and all right down to the bias ply tires. I call them all "model A's". I've had people give me grief for having a "chevy motor in a ford". When I ask to see THEIR Model A, of course, they don't have one. Besides, if your Model A has overhead valves, then Henry had no hand in it's design of manufacture so it's "ford" in name only and is no more appropriate than a SBC, Hemi or nailhead. I guess what prompted the question is that if a car has a modification that was NOT available at the time of manufacture, IE 12V electrical, it is modified and as such is in the same category as my chopped '28. JMO. People are fee to disagree and i will still respect their opinion no matter HOW different it is from mine.
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Re: When is a "Model A" no longer a "Model A" My Model A story.
In the 1980's, I bought a very nicely redone '31 coupe, which looked all original except for the 16" wire wheels. It had a Pinto 4 cyl. conversion with a 4 speed. My 10 year old son and I joined the local Model A club, and the car was well received. After about a year, many club members took their cars to a regional Model A meet, where I entered my car in the 'modified class'. There were half a dozen others in the class, and mine was probably the nicest, but when the judging was over and awards given, I found out mine had not even been judged. When I asked why, I was told it was not eligible for judging, and it was 'too modified'. The 'modified class' was for cars with upgraded wheels, and perhaps a 'B' motor. We kept the car for 25 years, but never went to another meet. Rick P PS: I now have a '30 Tudor with a monster 105 HP Chevy V6. I can drive it anywhere. Looks pretty original too. |
Re: When is a "Model A" no longer a "Model A" I like the "opinions may vary" comment by ronn in #5. I believe that beauty lies in the beholder... if in your eyes it's a Model "A"' then very simply it's a Model "A". Gary D.
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Re: When is a "Model A" no longer a "Model A" I don't profess that my opinion is the only true belief, as variety is the spice of life. If more people felt that way, we'd have less strife in this country now. But here goes: I got into Model A's because of the simplicity and purity of the design. While driving it, you can feel the mechanisms working and you become part of the machine, unlike the total isolation from the machine in modern cars. Anything that changes that driving experience makes a Model A less of a Model A. High compression head, B engine, fancy carburetors, etc. for more power? Why not just get a car that has more power to begin with? Buicks or Chryslers of the Model A era have plenty of power. Overdrive for higher speed? You're missing the point of driving an antique car! You're trying to duplicate a modern car's performance. Just go modern then if speed is what you need. Juice brakes for better stopping power? Why not just repair your mechanical brakes correctly? I can skid all four wheels on both my A's with the standard mechanical set up. I understand people who like the conveniences of a modern car wrapped in the look of an antique. But in my opinion, these good folks are poseurs.
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Re: When is a "Model A" no longer a "Model A" grumpy rick, The modified class rules clearly state it has to be an A or B block, read the rules and you won't be disappointed. I have modified Model A's, and can easily keep up with freeway traffic, and hydraulic brakes so I can stop as they do to. I was involved whith MAFCA whe the modified rules were first set, they are reasonable and fair.
Licensed to kill, so what do you call that pickup that is your icon? Doesn't look stock to me! |
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What I feel really causes the "strife" in current times is the labeling of people, when you don't agree with their decisions. We are all here for different reasons, some to judge, some to just enjoy the distraction away from what are current events. Be safe, John |
Re: When is a "Model A" no longer a "Model A" I was in a small local car show last year. Cars of all vintage, a lot of nice Model As. The guy parked next to me, actually a friend of mine, entered his car as a '28 Model A.
He won both "Oldest Car in Show" and "Best Vintage Auto". Good on him. The thing is THE only part on the car that was Model A was the chopped coupe body. Nothing else was Model A OR more than a couple of years old. BTW it is registered as a 1928 Model A. So where DO you draw the line? I surely can't answer that. |
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Re: When is a "Model A" no longer a "Model A" Has white walls ?? No longer a Model A.
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Re: When is a "Model A" no longer a "Model A" I talked to the title person in NJ DMV at one point and asked that question. I did not get a solid answer, but when the chassis parts are mostly not original.
This is important because people cheat the rules by doing a rod and keeping the title. Which can cause you problems. Legally if the car is not properly titled then it is not legally registered so it is not insured. I played the game asking these questions to various law enforcement and they were not sure what to say. Needless to say they do not want to try and defend this in court so they they will not do that to you. In NJ they have been asking for pictures of cars with QQ tag (historic license plates). If the car does not look close enough to factory they have been pulling the title and forcing you to show the car meets the requirements of a home built car. Emissions must meet year of manufacture for the engine. I have personally talked to 2 people that had their titles pulled (they let them continue driving in the mean time). They needed to prove they paid all the taxes on the parts in the car and submit them for a safety inspection. |
Re: When is a "Model A" no longer a "Model A" I would say if it still has an original Model A Frame that it is an A. If it has an aftermarket frame it is a custom vehicle that simply has some part of an A body on it.
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Re: When is a "Model A" no longer a "Model A" Over the years I have had more fun than a barrel of monkeys with my A by taking it to small car shows. I wouldn’t try it now though because I have added a couple things to the interior like a digital speedometer, high back seats, a stereo and a bolt in roll cage.
Back then though it looked completely stock on the inside and out down to the original wheels. Granted they had adapters to mount on aluminum race hubs with disc brakes but from 6 feet away it looked stock. I ran aluminum wheels normally. It has had various engines from a B to a flathead V8 and then to a 406 SBC. Always had side panels with baffles on the hood so you couldn’t see in. It was always interesting to get in a conversation with an old timer and invariably they would ask how fast I had driven it. When I would say over 150 many times they would either call me a liar or keel over in a faint. When I showed them the SCTA dash plaque verifying my statement, usually they would just shake their head and walk away…..Like I said about the monkeys. |
Re: When is a "Model A" no longer a "Model A" Being a posseur or in English a poser,one who imitates to gain standing is the realm of restoration in my opinion. Modification by definition is the antithesis of posing, your personal skill is displayed not in imitation but in the expression of yourself
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Re: When is a "Model A" no longer a "Model A" Here, there is a rule in car judging that says that for a car to be considered a particular make or model, 5 of the 7 major components must be from that model and the others must be period. The 7 components are:
In my book, a hot rod usually has a V8 engine, different transmission, steering, front and rear ends at least so too many of he components are "foreign" to that model. Also, under our system, a modified car cannot be registered as a (say) 1929 Model A if it is modified outside rather stringent constraints. We do not have title for cars so that consideration is irrelevant. |
Re: When is a "Model A" no longer a "Model A" Once again. What’s the lure of keeping up with freeway traffic.
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Re: When is a "Model A" no longer a "Model A" Maybe not in St Cloud,but in Sacramento driving a stock model a is dicey,if you can't keep up with the flow of traffic either on the arterials or the freeways your experience will be unpleasant.
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Re: When is a "Model A" no longer a "Model A" Hotrodfil - Thanks for the pics. I like your cars. I like all types. But appreciate cars that look like they would in their day, not flashy, look cared for, and look like they are driven every day.
What kind of paint? Has that duller deeper looking finish like lacquer (which personally I like). What name brand tires are you using? The top car looks like bias ply, bottom car radials? |
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