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-   -   Why did this rod fail? (https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showthread.php?t=190422)

gilitos 02-28-2016 08:08 PM

Why did this rod fail?
 

1 Attachment(s)
About 100 gentle miles on the rebuild. Newly poured rods on a new Burlington crankshaft. Highly reputable builder known to many on this forum. Full flow filter. Began to knock like heck. This happened a year ago but after all I went through for a no-holds-barred rebuild, I was too beartsick to pull the motor apart to see what happened until now.

The bad one is #2; I also pulled #3 cap and took a picture for comparison. Dipper trays were full of oil and #3 journal was dripping oil when i pulled it apart, so I don't think it was a pump failure. The crankshaft journal is visually okay.

Anybody have an opinion? Should the motor be torn down and rebuilt? Thanks for opining!

Flathead 02-28-2016 08:17 PM

Re: Why did this rod fail?
 

Clearance was checked at assembly? Dipper on rod was facing the right way? Piston looks OK? No sign of it seizing? It really sucks when you try to do the right thing and this happens. :(

J Franklin 02-28-2016 08:37 PM

Re: Why did this rod fail?
 

It looks like it was too tight. What weight oil was used? check the pump output after it is fixed.

George Miller 02-28-2016 09:28 PM

Re: Why did this rod fail?
 

I would say that both are bad.But it looks like the dark one was getting hot like the lack of oil.

Spokes 02-28-2016 10:10 PM

Re: Why did this rod fail?
 

Quote:

Originally Posted by gilitos (Post 1249998)
About 100 gentle miles on the rebuild. Newly poured rods on a new Burlington crankshaft. Highly reputable builder known to many on this forum. Full flow filter. Began to knock like heck. This happened a year ago but after all I went through for a no-holds-barred rebuild, I was too beartsick to pull the motor apart to see what happened until now.

The bad one is #2; I also pulled #3 cap and took a picture for comparison. Dipper trays were full of oil and #3 journal was dripping oil when i pulled it apart, so I don't think it was a pump failure. The crankshaft journal is visually okay.

Anybody have an opinion? Should the motor be torn down and rebuilt? Thanks for opining!

What did your rebuilder think ???

Tom Wesenberg 02-28-2016 10:40 PM

Re: Why did this rod fail?
 

Quote:

Originally Posted by George Miller (Post 1250071)
I would say that both are bad.But it looks like the dark one was getting hot like the lack of oil.

I was thinking the same thing.

What was the break in procedure?

With so few miles, it isn't even broke in yet.

George Miller 02-28-2016 10:43 PM

Re: Why did this rod fail?
 

Are the open side of the dippers facing the camshaft? Might be a good time for some new insert rods.

gilitos 02-28-2016 10:44 PM

Re: Why did this rod fail?
 

Breakin procedure is drive it slow and easy.

Mike V. Florida 02-29-2016 12:12 AM

Re: Why did this rod fail?
 

Quote:

Originally Posted by J Franklin (Post 1250025)
It looks like it was too tight. What weight oil was used? check the pump output after it is fixed.

It really really sucks when you try to do the right thing and this happens.

Too tight was my first thought. What did the builder say? I would have sent it back. Even if it cost a few hundred dollars, but now you opened it he can't see clearance, alignment, etc any more. To have a new person look at it it going to cost thousands more then the shipment.

tbirdtbird 02-29-2016 12:39 AM

Re: Why did this rod fail?
 

folks he has no oil wells

Tom Wesenberg 02-29-2016 04:03 AM

Re: Why did this rod fail?
 

I wonder why the side thrusts are completely broken away on #2?

700rpm 02-29-2016 04:12 AM

Re: Why did this rod fail?
 

Quote:

Originally Posted by tbirdtbird (Post 1250166)
folks he has no oil wells

Bingo.

Synchro909 02-29-2016 05:43 AM

Re: Why did this rod fail?
 

Looks to me like the failed one was poured a little cold. The worker's attention only has to be taken away from the job for a while for the melt to drop in temp. That would explain the broken edges too.

George Miller 02-29-2016 09:00 AM

Re: Why did this rod fail?
 

If you look at the so called good one, it is starting to change color also. Plus the contact area is not right. I think it is not getting enough oil, like maybe the pump is not working right. If it was mine I would go over every thing. But it looks also like the rods were never done right.

goodoldvic 02-29-2016 09:07 AM

Re: Why did this rod fail?
 

Who was the rebuilder?

Tom Wesenberg 02-29-2016 09:54 AM

Re: Why did this rod fail?
 

Quote:

Originally Posted by gilitos (Post 1249998)
About 100 gentle miles on the rebuild. Newly poured rods on a new Burlington crankshaft. Highly reputable builder known to many on this forum. Full flow filter. Began to knock like heck. This happened a year ago but after all I went through for a no-holds-barred rebuild, I was too beartsick to pull the motor apart to see what happened until now.

The bad one is #2; I also pulled #3 cap and took a picture for comparison. Dipper trays were full of oil and #3 journal was dripping oil when i pulled it apart, so I don't think it was a pump failure. The crankshaft journal is visually okay.

Anybody have an opinion? Should the motor be torn down and rebuilt? Thanks for opining!

He has full flow oil filter, but no mention of pressure oiling, and he did say his dipper tray was full.

I was also wondering if the cap got installed backwards, but I can't imagine an engine builder making that kind of mistake.

I wonder who did the rod babbit?

Vicky 02-29-2016 10:28 AM

Re: Why did this rod fail?
 

Lack of lubricant is clear.

1. Does the Rod surface look the same?

2. It appears that there is material build up on #2, so maybe the cap wasn't flush with the rod when assembled?

3. The cap may have been installed the wrong way, not allowing the oil to be picked up. Most likely to me, since I think it uses the "Dipper" to oil the rod journals.

4. If it is an oil pump problem, wouldn't the mains be a bigger problem?

5. If the engine is pressurized, shouldn't the holes be plugged?

I would get with the builder. It clearly isn't any thing you have done wrong, as long as the engine had the oil the builder recommended.

Tom Wesenberg 02-29-2016 10:51 AM

Re: Why did this rod fail?
 

How much oil was drained, what was in it, and how did it look?

Were the head nuts torqued often enough to keep them tight, so no coolant got in the oil?

gilitos 02-29-2016 10:59 AM

Re: Why did this rod fail?
 

Thanks for all the comments. So #3 looks like it may have been on the way out? The babbitt surface was very oily when I disassembled it.; it's not dark or scuffed. I figured that the uneven color was the process of a bearing bedding in.

Caps were all installed in the correct direction.
It's not a pressurized system.
I will definitely talk with the builder but I want other opinions first.
I wouldn't call out the builder unless it was clearly their fault and they didn't work to resolve the issue.

gilitos 02-29-2016 11:08 AM

Re: Why did this rod fail?
 

Also, I drained about 3.5 qts of oil and it looked fine. It was between the marks on the dipstick. There are now fine droplets of babbitt on the inside of the block around #2. I'll tell you what, that's pretty ugly!! I should post a picture of that for the gallery of Model A horrors.


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