Tech Q ?
 

I'm taking apart a model b diamond engine.
Have run into a 'strange' situation, that I haven't figured an answer for...yet.
Thot I'd ask here...early, in case someone has a helpful tip as to their thots.

This Texas guy sold a diamond B....as 'possibly' rebuilt.
Hey, it looked good with NEW paint ....that was puzzleing, as a guy would have to strip the b down to do such a good even paint job ?
Anyway, he did NOT provide any oil pressure testing orifice....that made me suspect of him. Without oil pressure assurance and with oil leak at front main...hm what's up ?

Ok, I pulled engine, took down pan and found a full THREE inches of sludge, to the extent...that it was covering oil pump half way up !! WTFudge ??

Pig in a pretty painted poke ??

So, took of pretty winfield 6;1 alum head. NO ridge ring..in any cylinder ??

Pistons...standard..hm ?

I did not take a compression test, but ran engine briefly till verified front main oil leak. NO smoking. Too rich fuel with excessive fuel not being burned..black plugs.

I'm stuck as to why ANYONE would bother to strip and engine to apply proper paint block/ pan, etc....and not remove pan for cursory inspection ??

Why no oil pressure and/or gauge ...to indicate 'remove pan and inspect' ?
Pump couldn't be putting out pressure...as it was !

And, how do you have 3 inches of sludge in engine with standard/no smoke pistons and no ridge rings ?

Still have to look further at bearings, etc.. Valves look ok/black on too rich fuel.

Kinda stumped on why so much sludge and engine still in condition it is in ?

Thots ... anyone ?

Re: Tech Q ?
 

Maybe you were the first person to ever drop the pan.

Re: Tech Q ?
 

Just maybe the seller never looked at the engine either but because it looked fresh, bought it to flip.

Your choice now either to flip or salvage what you have.

Hey it's the car biz... story of a wealthy collector with a mega dollar restoration on a Ferrari, first time at the track finds he has only first & fifth gear. "We'll be back....'

You'll be back......

Re: Tech Q ?
 

I have done and in car engine paint after doing some crack repairs to the water jacket for a customer. You would be surprised how well enamel paint sticks to old hard grease! This one was cleaner when I got done then that, but have run across more then a few cases when got to cleaning found the grease was just painted over. :)

Re: Tech Q ?
 

Im leaning towards your idea relative to this B.
Ive opened a LOT engines... and found a lot of sludge... at times !
Never with near this much , and never without ridge rings , standard bore and otherwise clean as this B !
What causes sludge ? We all know that answer. That leads me to believe that this B MAY have started life as a truck or donkey engine-i.e., many starts/stops, no time to warm up properly, no hard work, lack of regular PMs = sludge !
If it isn't cracked... I may have a diamond (B) in the ruff/jewel !!

Re: Tech Q ?
 

You got a raw deal, but on a stock engine there was never an oil pressure ga., or need for one.

Re: Tech Q ?
 

Nor did they ever build pressure as stock.............J

Re: Tech Q ?
 

Sludge is from years of non detergent oil. Instead of being held in suspension and flushed out during a change like detergent oil,non detergent oil allows debris to settle out in the pan.

Cracking with a late B happens,I have one.Since it was repaired correctly and has fresh babbit Ill build it over the two uncracked late B's I have. B engines as Jim says,don't need an oil pressure gauge..stock.Instead of gravity fed main bearings and cam bearings like the A,Ford supplied positive oil flow to the bearings with the B..not pressure...constant flow.

Re: Tech Q ?
 

The 'money' shot in any Ford flathead four cylinder is under the oil pan.

Re: Tech Q ?
 

No, this is the money shot........

Re: Tech Q ?
 

Years ago Quaker State had a problem with a batch of oil where it would turn to jelly if it got too cold. I wonder if your engine had something react with the oil in the pan and make a LOT of sludge all at once while having almost no wear on the engine.
BTW, John Neilson, that is the LOTTA money shot. Is that a Donavan block?

Re: Tech Q ?
 

That is called a Krylon overhaul.



Sludge comes from the crap settling out, as Jack Shaft said, with non detergent oil. An engine that runs cold will have more sludge and it means that the oil was not changed very frequently or not at all. I remember engines full of sludge. Use detergent oil in your Model A but only after making sure that the engine is not full of sludge.

Re: Tech Q ?
 

It's probably driven an emergency generator and been started every now and then.

Re: Tech Q ?
 

Maybe the pan is not from that engine??

Re: Tech Q ?
 

Notice that John Neilson's engine has the two forward pistons moving in unison and the two aft pistons moving in unison. The firing order for this engine can be 1-3-2-4 or 1-4-2-3. The reason for doing this is so that the shared intake ports at the front alternate with the shared intake ports at the rear. This makes the engine breath better. With the normal crankshaft the front intake port sucks twice then the rear intake port sucks twice.

Re: Tech Q ?
 

Very observant good job
Winfield did this a few years ago
Called two up two down
Sort of a poor mans 4 port motor

And yes, much more efficient than normal crank

J

Re: Tech Q ?
 

Hey John,
Nah, not THE money shot... nice, but only 4 mains !!

Re: Tech Q ?
 

Jim B,
I learned all this... good, from your #1 book !
I do not usually mess with ‘stock’ oil pump. I use high pressure pump..ergo the pressure gage useage.

However, this time I’m thinking using stock pump.
I have a question for you, regarding stock pump
Configuration.
Can I just flip over the gear cover, to get a new unused surface ?
There is slight wear on the plate where it touched the gear faces.
Thanks Jim

Re: Tech Q ?
 

Big time..guess I'll take my toys and go home :) ...btw..I didn't know you were a crossdresser..you got matching stockings to go with that girdle??

We used to lap oil pump plates. .light scoring is unavoidable.

the only salt my junk will see is if its spilled in the drivethru..

Re: Tech Q ?
 

Good eye nkaminar! Lotta high-dollar equipment shown above.

Hardtimes, 4 mains? On a banger???

Short story on sludge. In '65 I was working for the City of LA. One night the foreman gave me a job, no oil pressure the ticket said. I started it up, good pressure but by the time I drove it into the shop, the red light was on. Turned out there were heaps of sludge in the pan. (Ford 6 cyl. pickup) I cleaned the pan and pump screen, put it back together, put in 5 qts of oil, started the engine ... no pressure. By now it was break time, and the guys were giving me a bad time, saying you forgot to put in oil you dumb sh-t. I said I put it right in here, sticking my finger into the rocker cover opening, and got my finger soaked with oil! The upper end was so full of sludge the oil hadn't gotten down to the pan!