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-   -   12v conversion 59a starter solenoid 4 pole. 46 Mercury. (https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showthread.php?t=287331)

Phil Gillespie 09-16-2020 06:05 PM

12v conversion 59a starter solenoid 4 pole. 46 Mercury.
 

The engine was set up on test stand and ran well using a key start set up without a solenoid. Starter motor is a Titan Quick Start Denso Gear reduction starter. This starter has the built in solenoid.

Have converted to 12v. Negative earth. Have a 4 pole solenoid fitted from Vintage Garage RA0314. Thiis will do a 1 wire start switch (switch grounded) or a 2 wire start switch (switch powered).
The one wire set up has jumper from small terminal to battery 12 positive inlet terminal.
The 2 wire jumper is from small terminal to an earth ie mounting screw.
Hooked it all up and no start?? Using the original start button and ignition switch etc.
With ignition switch on am getting 12 v at coil. Coil is 12v with 3 ohms at primary so no resistor. Have also a wire at power outlet of solenoid to starter motor and another to the solenoid on the starter.
Seeems like the starter button is not wired correct ??

Would appreciate any advice as dont want to fry anything at this stage.
Its ready for the road once I get a new WOF for it. These have to be renewed every 6 months in NZ. Keep to get it on road and clock up some miles on it.
Morris Run In oil for first 500 miles.
Phil NZ.

JSeery 09-16-2020 07:41 PM

Re: 12v conversion 59a starter solenoid 4 pole. 46 Mercury.
 

Have you tried a jumper to ground right at the 4 pole solenoid to see if it is working? I would check that first.

I'm trying to figure out what relay you are using. Can you provide a link, can't find anything using RA0314?

Phil Gillespie 09-16-2020 08:04 PM

Re: 12v conversion 59a starter solenoid 4 pole. 46 Mercury.
 

Quote:

Originally Posted by JSeery (Post 1932405)
Have you tried a jumper to ground right at the 4 pole solenoid to see if it is working? I would check that first.

I'm trying to figure out what relay you are using. Can you provide a link, can't find anything using RA0314?

Cant sort out the link. Its at Vintage Auto Garage. Ford Starter Solenoid
Activated by switched ground or power. Part No: 7-1013.

Will check with a jumper to see if working.
Phil NZ

JSeery 09-16-2020 08:13 PM

Re: 12v conversion 59a starter solenoid 4 pole. 46 Mercury.
 

1 Attachment(s)
Ya, that works better. Connect a jumper to the terminal labeled ground button and short it to ground and see if the starter turns.

What's going on at the starter? If it worked directly with an input before, how is it wired up now?

Reread the OP, and now I'm not sure what is the issue you are having.

The starter will not turn the engine over?

Or the engine turns over but the engine will not fire?

Phil Gillespie 09-16-2020 08:21 PM

Re: 12v conversion 59a starter solenoid 4 pole. 46 Mercury.
 

Quote:

Originally Posted by JSeery (Post 1932415)
Ya, that works better. Connect a jumper to the terminal labeled ground button and short it to ground and see if the starter turns.

What's going on at the starter? If it worked directly with an input before, how is it wired up now?

Reread the OP, and now I'm not sure what is the issue you are having.

The starter will not turn the engine over?

Or the engine turns over but the engine will not fire?

The fault at present is that starter will not turn over engine.
Before on the test stand this solenoid was not in play it was just wired through a key start and fired up well.
Phil NZ

JSeery 09-16-2020 08:27 PM

Re: 12v conversion 59a starter solenoid 4 pole. 46 Mercury.
 

Short the ground button terminal on the solenoid to ground and see if you have voltage at the starter connection on the solenoid.

Phil Gillespie 09-16-2020 09:21 PM

Re: 12v conversion 59a starter solenoid 4 pole. 46 Mercury.
 

Quote:

Originally Posted by JSeery (Post 1932420)
Short the ground button terminal on the solenoid to ground and see if you have voltage at the starter connection on the solenoid.

Is that just what Idid to verify starter turned over??
Or is it to remove terminal lead and short to ground? Then check for voltage?
Will have to progress tomorrow.
Appreciate all so far.

Phil NZ.

flatjack9 09-16-2020 09:31 PM

Re: 12v conversion 59a starter solenoid 4 pole. 46 Mercury.
 

Googled Vintage Garage and didn't come up with anything.

JSeery 09-16-2020 09:56 PM

Re: 12v conversion 59a starter solenoid 4 pole. 46 Mercury.
 

https://www.vintageautogarage.com/

https://www.vintageautogarage.com/se...&Submit=Search

JSeery 09-16-2020 10:12 PM

Re: 12v conversion 59a starter solenoid 4 pole. 46 Mercury.
 

1 Attachment(s)
I was want you to test the solenoid to see if it was activating when the one terminal was grounded and if there was power getting to the starter. Don't change any wiring yet, just see if what you have is working.

rich b 09-16-2020 10:50 PM

Re: 12v conversion 59a starter solenoid 4 pole. 46 Mercury.
 

You do have the battery cable hooked up to the starter and are only using the 4 post solenoid as a relay to send voltage to the solenoid terminal.

Battery cable hooked to starter.
Wire from there to battery post on 4 post solenoid.
Wire from starter post on 4 post solenoid to solenoid post on starter.
Jumper wire on 4 post solenoid as in posted pictures.
Wire from 4 post solenoid to start button as in posted pictures.

koates 09-16-2020 10:51 PM

Re: 12v conversion 59a starter solenoid 4 pole. 46 Mercury.
 

If your new starter motor has a shift solenoid on top of it that shifts the starter drive into mesh with the ring gear then you really dont need a separate solenoid involved. All you need is to power the small terminal on the starter solenoid from a key or press button start switch. If you use the original firewall solenoid then it has to power the main terminal on the starter and also the small activating terminal together. Put a small jump wire between the solenoid on top of the starter main terminal and the small terminal that activates the solenoid. Regards, Kevin.

koates 09-16-2020 11:20 PM

Re: 12v conversion 59a starter solenoid 4 pole. 46 Mercury.
 

On reflection this could be wired a couple of different ways. Please explain where you have the main heavy battery cable from the batt positive terminal connected to. Is it on the firewall solenoid or the actual starter solenoid terminal ?? Regards, Kevin.

Phil Gillespie 09-17-2020 01:35 AM

Re: 12v conversion 59a starter solenoid 4 pole. 46 Mercury.
 

Quote:

Originally Posted by koates (Post 1932460)
On reflection this could be wired a couple of different ways. Please explain where you have the main heavy battery cable from the batt positive terminal connected to. Is it on the firewall solenoid or the actual starter solenoid terminal ?? Regards, Kevin.

Presently have the positive battery terminal to the input side of the 4 post soleniod mounted at original position on firewall.
Output from solenoid is then to starter motor with another lead to starter motor operating solenoid.
Phil NZ

koates 09-17-2020 01:49 AM

Re: 12v conversion 59a starter solenoid 4 pole. 46 Mercury.
 

Phil, that sounds as if it is connected OK and should work providing that the firewall solenoid is switching ON when the dash button grounds one of the small solenoid terminals. Time to use a test light (not your meter) and test to see where you are getting power through and where you are not getting power through. Does the firewall solenoid CLICK when you press the starter button ? Regards, Kevin.

Phil Gillespie 09-17-2020 02:43 AM

Re: 12v conversion 59a starter solenoid 4 pole. 46 Mercury.
 

Quote:

Originally Posted by koates (Post 1932473)
Phil, that sounds as if it is connected OK and should work providing that the firewall solenoid is switching ON when the dash button grounds one of the small solenoid terminals. Time to use a test light (not your meter) and test to see where you are getting power through and where you are not getting power through. Does the firewall solenoid CLICK when you press the starter button ? Regards, Kevin.

Will check this one out tomorrow. As want to stay with the original set up.
ie ignition switch on and push starter button to start her up.
think I have a test light about.
That seems to be the problem as you say, to be sure the firewall soleniod is in fact switching on!!.
Phil NZ

Phil Gillespie 09-17-2020 02:54 AM

Re: 12v conversion 59a starter solenoid 4 pole. 46 Mercury.
 

1 Attachment(s)
Attachment 442426





See fitting intructions for the Titian Quick Start Starter as supplied by NZ supplier.

Phil NZ

Dodge 09-17-2020 04:30 AM

Re: 12v conversion 59a starter solenoid 4 pole. 46 Mercury.
 

It’s been along time but doesn’t the stock system put hot to the solenoid and the starter button grounds it out for the connection.
You also don’t want to use the original solenoid and the solenoid on the starter it won’t disengage quick enough, there is a slight delay that hangs up the starter.
Find a starter button that will put 12v to the solenoid on the starter.
If memory serves me correctly.

Phil Gillespie 09-17-2020 07:42 PM

Re: 12v conversion 59a starter solenoid 4 pole. 46 Mercury.
 

An update from suggestions and advice,

Pushing the original start button incar there is no click of soleniod comming in.

I then shorted on the solenoid the button terminal to ground: Solenoid clicked in.

With ignition switch off: power to starter connection on solenoid out to starter.
With ignition switch on: Power to starter connection on soleniod outt starter.
Power to starter connection button terminal.

Ignition switch on Voltage at terminals on solenoid:
1: Battery positive yes
2:Jumper connecton terminal as per drawing, yes
3;Starter switch Yes ???
4:Starter motor No.

The solenoid has at the battery input terminal a 2 wire connection from ?
The solenoid has at the starter switch terminal a single wire connection From starter button I would think.
Phil NZ

Phil Gillespie 09-17-2020 07:48 PM

Re: 12v conversion 59a starter solenoid 4 pole. 46 Mercury.
 

I requested info from Vintage Garage who I had got bits off for the 12v converstion.

Hello Simple
Your starter needs 12 volts to your denso starter may need to replace your single wire button to 2 wire so when you push the button delivers 12 volts currently your button goes to ground will not work with your new starter.

Jay.

Just wanted to keep all starter sequence as per original as much as possible.
Phil NZ


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